Author Topic: Aircombat skills: Open Discussion (Read 1003 times)

Naudet · « **on:** April 09, 2002, 04:27:26 AM »

Hi folks, to help new players to get started in the hard world of AH aircombat i thought about discussing which skills are important in the MA.
Please give priorties, explain why or why not a skill is more important than another.
And i will begin.

Most important A2A skills from my viewpoint:

1. Situational Awareness (SA)
2. Gunnery
3. Air Combat Manoeuvring (ACMing)

OK why this order.

1. SA is the most important skill. It enables you to know what is going on arround you, estiminate enemies E state and possible intentions.
Basicly its so important cause you can't fight what you didn't see. And you can't defend against something you didn't notice.
I also count the part of decision to attack/not attack, break off or re-attack as part of SA. It's important to know if the attack you try has a chance of success or if its only alt and E burning.
Personally i always try to be aware of any cons around me and the general situation in an area of about 20 miles around my position.
Based on this informations i will decide, which altitude i fly at, which speed i try to mantain and which targets i will attack etc.
i.e. in heavy populated area were the situation might change fast and where more enemies are around than friendlies i will try to stay fast and will avoid to get involved in a close in dogfight, i will try to suprise targets and most often not follow there evasive, also i will concentrate to eliminate the biggest threat.
All those decisions, information gathering and constant look around is part of SA and is for me most important for success and surviving.

2. Gunnery, that is simple. I can't kill if i can't hit. So Gunnery comes directy behind SA. I try to make my 1st gunpass the last ne, so i don't even have to care about following a target.

3. ACMing, from the three skills i listed, the least important. Most often i need offensive ACMs when i didn't managed to surprise my target. But i generally prefer E.Hartmanns tactics of detect-decide-attack-break-off or break, so i fly one attack, if successful or not i take a break, check situation again, than i decide if i attack the same guy again or switch targets. It seldom a real 1v1 and so i don't use offensive ACM very often.
Even less i use defensive ACM, they are for me only last ditch manoeuvres to get out of situation i shouldnt even have come into. Most often i just got into them cause i let my SA go lose. I generally avoid to have an enemy in a "bubble" around my plane of 1000 yards radius, except it is my target.
If the enemy is getting within this bubble its time for ACMing, but as i said, through my SA i try to avoid that any enemy gets within this bubble and become a real danger.

tofri at work · « **Reply #1 on:** April 09, 2002, 05:35:59 AM »

The biggest enemy of SA is greed.
Never try to kill a con at all cost, never forget checking your low and high six, when chasing a con. I might be behind you

Gunnery biggest enemy is lag and bad joysticks.
Against lag you can't do much except spraying, but we are no dweebs, aren't we.
On the other hand my joystick has a big deadzone.
So I have big problems to lead the pipper into the target. The Question to hit wing roots or tips on buffs does not affect me

.

To learn ACM there is only one rule.
No spits, no niki, no la5/7 for beginners.
If you take these arcade planes, you'll never learn to fight real good.
Take P47, P51 or a German Plane and learn to fly them. The first time will be hard and you'll loose many planes to stalls or end up at 150mph close to the ground with a con behind you.
But you learn to keep your speed and energy even in a furball.

Xjazz · « **Reply #2 on:** April 09, 2002, 06:00:29 AM »

S! Naudet!

Very good points!

1. Generally about SA. Important thing is understanding of viewing system of Aces high. Exm. can you turn where you WANT when you look backwards?

When I strat Aces high I practising BFM above airfield in offline. I execute level turns, Immelmans, Split-S, Barrel Rolls by looking left/right, up or backwards. My goal was maintain planed flight path and I ralso record my flying to see later what I done wrong.

one offline practice was "enemy" tracking by flying all over one droon and try learn where they are if I lose sight.

Also formation (wedge) flying with droone was fun. I try keep my position aside or under and learn steering my plane without straight forward view.

2. Gunnery...Eh well, Im to too good but try some offline practise here too. Stay with one plane and learn the guns on it.

Fly behind droon about d250 and try keep that distance all the time. Aim well and try tro remember WHERE you aim. Shoot only with machineguns OR cannons at ones. Short shooting and check possible hits. You miss? Adjust your aim and shoot again. You hit? Good. Reapeat until you puke. Next d300 distence. Then try attack@shooting from different angles, up, belly side etc...

3. ACM? Study and practise! You NEED to know your plane and enemy plane. Can ru... extend away from enemy? Can you out climb your enemy etc.

Record your fights and look them carefully. Try to understand how enemy gain shooting position.

Ask ACM hints from some aces (Not from me).

straffo · « **Reply #3 on:** April 09, 2002, 06:06:45 AM »

Gunnery first
even with bad SA (provided you don't get shot down at start) you can get kill with a good gunnery whereas without ... well your not a fighter you are a target

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #4 on:** April 09, 2002, 06:20:54 AM »

The first is SA, SA and more SA. Look at the map all the time, read the radio buffer, hear the voice coms, look around over and below you, ask your country mates for info, look at the strat window, even at the roster window, memorize all the data and begin to play a wargame with it. Remember that your only presence in a good offensive possition may be more than enough to stop an enemy raid even if you are unable to kill a single con.
Keep in mind that the main target is to keep in an offensive possition for as many enemies as possible, the secondary target is just to kill some of these enemies. Target fixation may give you a kill followed by a quick death, and once dead you are no more a treat for anyone.

Second is knowing your plane and the enemies one.

Third is whatever you want: gunnery, E-fighting, etc.

xHaMmeRx · « **Reply #5 on:** April 09, 2002, 08:53:40 AM »

Good discusssion. I totally agree that SA is the #1 skill in the MA.
In the arena, an average pilot with good SA will land more kills than a good pilot with average SA. I did a write-up on situation awareness on my web-site.

ACM and gunnery are prioritized on how you want to fight. Your mentioned style of attack, break, re-evaluate would place gunnery ahead of ACM. I tend to engage and stay engaged unless the odds are really bad. This makes ACM and defensive moves very important. Your way is better for survival!

I disagree with tofri about the spit/nik/La-7 being bad planes to learn ACM in. To my mind, the key to learning ACM is flying whatever plane you are in at the edge of its performance envelope. The nice things about these planes for a beginner is they are good enough that you can make a mistake and recover from it using the plane's abilities. The key is the mindset of the beginner. They must want to learn ACM and using the plane. Someone who HO's in a La-7 is going to HO in a P-51. It's not the plane's fault, it's the pilots unwillingness to learn. But hey, if they get enough kills that way to make them happy, hopefully they will eventually want to improve their flying skills.

My $.02

HaMmeR
www.netAces.org - Tactics, Info, and More!

fffreeze220 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 09, 2002, 11:28:10 AM »

Damn Hammer visited ur site couple days before, found it in google.com, wtfg page dude nice writen and tons of info.
I bookmarked it and will visit it regularry

majic · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2002, 06:43:33 PM »

I personally would put it: SA, then ACM, then gunnery, because gunnery is useless if you can't work the guy to a point where you should be shooting. (surprise is great, but very difficult with icons)

Kweassa · « **Reply #8 on:** April 09, 2002, 07:16:00 PM »

Boelke's Air Combat Points:

1. Try to secure advantages before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you.

2. Always carry through an attack when you have started it.

3. Fire only at close range, and only when your opponent is properly in your sights.

4. Always keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses.

5. In any form of attack it is essential to assail your opponent from behind.

6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught, but fly to meet it.

7. When over enemy lines, never forget your own line of retreat.

8. For the staffel: attack on principle of groups of four or six. When the flight breaks up into a series of single combats, take care that several do not go for one opponent.

ps)

take care that several do not go for one opponent .. now this is one discipline we truly need in MA! Gets a bit boring when you're the only one who tries to ignore low bogeys with multiple friendlies on its arse, and patrol for buffs.

Kweassa · « **Reply #9 on:** April 09, 2002, 07:31:41 PM »

Tactical Flying in MA

1. Never be bored. Sure, furballs are fun, but if your country is in a condition where furballs can't be afforded, always think where you are truly needed.

2. The most popular MA tactic is the four-phase tactic consisting of: a) attack with numbers, b) drive the fight low with furballs, c) fly buffs over the furball and close the target airfield, d) vulch and CAP field. It is essential for the defense to counter this properly. When you up from an airfield where it is attacked in between phases a) to b), join the furball and try to help keep local air superiority. When you upped from situations after b), ignore the furballs. Grab altitude and patrol for buffs. (There's no shortage of furball pilots like there is no shortage of moths jumping into a fireball.)

3. When vulching and CAPing an airfield, try to keep tabs on your current armament situation. If you see friendly reinforcements on the way, make no hesitation and RTB. Rearm yourself with more bombs and rockets, and promptly knock out anything that respawns. CAPing an airfield with guns only helps in nothing individual scores. Total waste of airpower.

4. Never try to up from a vulched airfield.

xHaMmeRx · « **Reply #10 on:** April 09, 2002, 08:19:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
Tactical Flying in MA

1. Never be bored. Sure, furballs are fun, but if your country is in a condition where furballs can't be afforded, always think where you are truly needed.

2. The most popular MA tactic is the four-phase tactic consisting of: a) attack with numbers, b) drive the fight low with furballs, c) fly buffs over the furball and close the target airfield, d) vulch and CAP field. It is essential for the defense to counter this properly. When you up from an airfield where it is attacked in between phases a) to b), join the furball and try to help keep local air superiority. When you upped from situations after b), ignore the furballs. Grab altitude and patrol for buffs. (There's no shortage of furball pilots like there is no shortage of moths jumping into a fireball.)

3. When vulching and CAPing an airfield, try to keep tabs on your current armament situation. If you see friendly reinforcements on the way, make no hesitation and RTB. Rearm yourself with more bombs and rockets, and promptly knock out anything that respawns. CAPing an airfield with guns only helps in nothing individual scores. Total waste of airpower.

4. Never try to up from a vulched airfield.

Kweassa,

That is a brilliantly simple summary of fighter operations in the main arena. Mind if I capture that and post it somewhere on my site?

HaMmeR
www.netAces.org - Tactics, Info, and More!

fuzeman · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2002, 01:10:16 AM »

I would put them in this order, and it's just my opinion.
1- SA of course for most of the reasons mentioned. You use this offensively and defensively.
2- ACM, why? Because a little ACM can get you closer to your target and IF your screen is filled with enemy plane it's tough to miss even if you can't hit the broad side of a barn. ACM not only helps in killing the enemy... it helps avoid the kill if an enemy is on your 6. IF your ACM is good enough you may turn the tide and change your defensive position into an offensive one.
3- Gunnery skills. I put this a notch below the ACM because killing is half the game. IF you have a bogie ON your 6, the best gunnery in the world won't save you.

fuzeman

BNM · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2002, 03:08:47 AM »

Just do like Fester and never take off unless you're in the middle of at least 10 of your guys or in a 262.

Kweassa · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2002, 11:29:20 AM »

HaMmeR, feel free to post it anywhere you want.

Oh, do mind that I made a little mistake:

"CAPing an airfield with guns only helps in nothing but individual scores. Total waste of airpower."

F4UDOA · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2002, 11:35:01 AM »

If you really want to learn ACM go to the CT right now.

It will give you a choice of fighting in either a slow manueverable A/C vrs a fast energy fighter in the PAC plane set.

Usually F4U/F6F vrs A6M5, NIK2-J or KI-61. This is the ultimate lesson in discipline. Loose your discipline and loose the fight on either side. There are quite a few very good sticks flying on both sides. TAC, Frenchy, Pongo and others are flying Zekes and KI's. I have had some of the best dogfights I have had in the last few days.

The making a good ACM is a good historic matchup. Jab vrs Jab, move for move. I have been flying the F4U-1 which I luv even in outnumbered situations against the dreaded NIK2. As long as I use my head I am untouchable. With low fuel 25% or less I can even hang in for a few turns before extending.

I have always thought the Euro plane set left something to be desired as far pure ACM goes because the Historic matchups took place at much higher Alts. with a Bomber, escort, defender mentality which has not yet been duplicated in AH. In a pure ACM envirement nothing beats a 1943 PAC war plane set(except maybe Mig-15 vrs F-86).

Bring in the KI-44, P-39, P-40, F4F and Oscar and we can have a PAC war theater. Amen