Most unrealistic aspect of Aces High.

[NUTTZ]

You quoted in an earlier post AH uses Bump mapping. Could you explain HOW it is used in AH? I do know what Bump mapping is, And making maps I don't know how bump mapping is used on the tiles. I do use bump mapping on some of my tiles to make it 'Appear" to have a 3d effect. But it is still a flat surface. If it is used elsewhere, then where? If it is used on the tiles, I don't see it. I am using an old Gforce 32 meg Non DDR, so would this be why i don't see Bump mapping?

Each Tile in AH is 1 square mile, it has 9 vortexs, these are twisted and independant from each other so it twist or warps the tile, But bump mapping ( as I believe) would also add 3d to each of these tiles. Am i correct?

NUTTZ

[Beegerite]

Thanks Skuzzy for this very interesting post.  I'm not a programmer other than the great basic code I used to crank out on my COCO but I'm sure as hell an admirer of AH's programming.  I only wish that short of giving away trade secrets people who do know how this is done would more often share how this or that is done.  
Beeg

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Well, I keep hearing how many people think the AH graphics engine is old and outdated and not up to todays systems.

As a programmer, I will tell you categorically, it has absolutely zero to do with the graphics engine.  You know a graphics engine only pushes polys, and the amount of polys you chose to deal with (i.e. the artwork) is your limitation.

You guys are asking for more polys, plain and simple.  I will also tell you Nate and Super could create the most realistic models you could ever see, but then when your frame rate is in the toilet, you would not like it.  

There are inherent rules involved with game design you cannot get around today.

1)  If you are a box game with limited network play, you have more processing power to work with grahics.
2)  If you are a massive multi-player online game, you have to give up quite a bit of processing power from the graphics to achieve smooth game play.

I am not saying there is not room for improvement.  HTC has shown the ability to move forward, but you have to consider, the mean average CPU today and answer, "what can that system do today?".  Todays mean average CPU is about 550Mhz P3.  

I have no doubt HTC could generate a version of AH that would make about 2 percent of the players really happy in terms of eye candy, the other 98 percent would not be able to play it.  This would be a bad business call on HTC's part, but they know that already.

And before you ask, "why not create a high end of AH for those that can handle it?".  Well, now you are talking about generating twice to three times the amount of work for HTC, which translates into much longer times between updates and patches.  Again, another bad business call.

Also, consider the graphics cards.  Did you know that until NVidia released the GF3 (non-MX), they only had support for 2 texture stages?  What does this mean?  Well, for graphics to look realistic, it requires at least 4 texture stages.  One for the base texture, one for bump mapping, one for light mapping, and one for specular mapping.  Oh, let's not talk about projected shadows, which requires more stages.
Of course, bump mapping alone adds nice subtle touches to grahics.  The terrain in AH uses bump mapping, which was added some versions ago.

I admire HTC's ability to balance the graphics.  They probably do that better than anyone.  What does that mean?  Well, if you create a model with a high poly count, and suddenly you have to render 10 of those, along with the other persistent objects, the frame rate would drop like a rock.  Balancing the poly count is a true art.  The goal for the game designer to to keep frame rates fluid and not fluctuating all over the place.  In some cases it is impossible to not have that happen, but you want those cases to be the special case, not the normal case.
If you are a box game with limited network play, you do not have to be so concerned with this as you know you will have a limited number of objects in view at any given time.

I have no doubt that when the mean CPU is above 1Ghz, AH will look appropriately improved in the graphics area.

[Skuzzy]

NUTTZ, I only know bump mapping is used on the terrain in AH, but do not know how it is applied.
The effect of the bump mapping in the current terrains appears to increase the "feel" of speed as you fly over the terrain, especially at low altitudes.
If you are creating a terrain, bump mapping just gives the illusion of a 3D texture.  This is much cheaper, graphically,  than actually altering the vertices to give height to a surface.

The effect is subtle in a graphics world where lighting is uniform, but in point, or spot lighting, the effects can be very dramatic.  In general, bump mapping works by adding another lighting calculation to the pixel based on the bump map texture.  Bump map textures are grayscale, and the color of gray dictates how the light calculation is done.  Lighter colors raise the elevation, darker colors lower the elevation.

I was not aware how the AH terrain was setup, but with 9 vertices per square mile, it makes a lot of sense to use bump mapping.  It allows you to create more dramatic effects between the vertices without adding more vertices.

Many games have not used bump mapping as it requires more memory and more calculations.  If you use the hardware bump mapping on the newer generation of video cards, you need quite a bit of video ram as you are loading another texture on top of the default one for the poly.  If you do it in software, you do not need as much video ram, but the graphics performance could suffer.

That help?

[LePaul]

Skuzzy & others...

Overall, I'm pleased with the look and feel of the game.  I've got one of those "average" computers (P3 550 /Voodoo 5500) and it plays Aces High and my other games (Falcon 4, etc) very well.

However, I've got a question....you mention HTC's balance of FPS and playability.  Now, call me kooky, but couldn't HTC make the tweaks the power users desire options?  For example, my lowly system runs Falcon 4 really nicely.  But, if I crank in the big details and such, I can really drag it down.  So, for my system, the settings are cranked back.

If some of these guys have P4/XP cpu's and video memory for it, then let them have the toys    Every other game I've played recently (just finished Max Payne) had big option boxes for resolutions, details, etc etc.  If the Art Dept wants to crank out shinier looking birds, GVs, etc, then have at!  

Smoke em if you got em  

[NUTTZ]

Sorry to hijack or have a thread within a thread.

Skuzzy I'm aware of where bumpmapping is in AH, It's the clutter on/off now. Me and Weazel have been playing around with this. It's 2 transparent layers that give you the "feel" of speed down low. I know "brandX" say they use bumpmapping and thought they were refering bumpmapping per tile. Meaning the tile has infinate number of differences in alt within the tile, I could be wrong.

Thanx for replying

NUTTZ

[Wanker]

Originally posted by -sudz-
- Tronspir

Unfortunately, tronspir, there won't be any brew this con.  I'm too devastated by this whole train grade thing.  And if that wasn't enough, now I find the damage model is unrealistic and the planes are represented by something called "polys" instead of being actual planes I was piloting remotely.

After I finished weeping and gnashing my teeth from reading this, I called my friends and relatives - told them I was quitting my job and selling all my material possessions.  It's time I found out what is really real.  Walk the earth.  Visit India.

Because if AH isn't real then we're all just playing at life and not really accomplishing anything for the populations of Rookland, Knightland, and Bishopia.  Like it was a game or something . . .

Oh.  Whups!  Never mind then.

-sudz

PS  Superfly - sell me back my computer and CH setup.  I still have the $25 you gave me.

ROFL, sudz. That is the funniest post I've seen in a long time. Thanks for the laugh.