Author Topic: Combat Theater a success, because...  (Read 444 times)

Offline Sabre

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« on: April 09, 2002, 03:32:30 PM »
First let me repeat what I've said before.  HiTech is not displeased with the progress the CT has made since Pyro organized its revitalization.  The numbers are what he expected to see at this point, and he is reasonably happy with how things are going.  The support, patience and dedication of those who frequent the CT is primarily responsible for this success.  Thank you.  This doesn't mean there's no room for improvement of course:).  Now in answer to the nay-sayers who would have the uninformed believe that the CT is tottering on the edge of virtual extinction...

The following is only my opinion, though based on long thought and study.  I’ve listened to and pondered the various arguments and ideas suggested as to why more people don’t fly in the CT.  “Too limited in A/C choice.”  “Too hard to find a fight with reduced radar.”  “Reduced icon range sucks.”  I’ve also listened to those (many of which have little or no time in the CT) who say “If you want more people in the CT, make it just like the MA, only with Axis-vs-Allies.  All these arguments are based on faulty and circular logic.  Specifically, since the MA has hundreds in it at peak times while the CT only has dozens, making the CT just like the MA will make hundreds fly there.  That’s bull.  The reason hundreds fly in the MA now is because it is “The Main Arena.”  It was first, and the answer is as simple as that.

Let’s look at the various arguments noted above.  For instance, the argument that limited choice of A/C keeps people away.  Well, we’ve run an all aircraft Axis-vs-Allied set up in the CT before (Perdonia).  Numbers were up the first time we ran it, but returned to more typical numbers the second time it was offered.  The difference in radar coverage between the CT and the MA during Perdonia was largely transparent, too.  The only real difference was the short icons.  On those few occasions where the MA went down – resulting in tons of people switching to the CT to continue playing – I don’t recall noting more than a few isolated complaints about the short icons.  Contrast this with the most restrictive plane-set we’ve ever used, the Battle of Britain.  This CT set up did just as well as Perdonia’s first run (perhaps even a bit better), and with short icons and much more restrictive radar coverage to boot.  Plus, it did so with an old and less-than-ideal terrain!

Admittedly, people may be a bit spoiled by the plethora of choice available in the MA, but remember that we were all having a great time when we only had a half dozen A/C available during Beta.  Indeed, WWIIOL has less than 10 A/C available, so by the reasoning of some, nobody would choose to fly there when they can fly in AH or WB.  Yet they do, and in great numbers.  So I don’t buy the “limited plane-set” argument.  The evidence is against it.  The right limited plane-set can and has worked just fine.

The only real answer to why more people fly in the MA that resonates true is, “I’d fly there, but there’s never enough people in there when I log on.”  Yet we have had a significant number of people who have taken the plunge and tried the CT.  Finding it to their liking, they have become regulars; nay, they have become zealots in their dedication to it.  Search the call signs of the regular CT crowd and you will find many that never flew in the CT (or even wanted a CT) before Pyro took the steps to revive it.

What brought them in that first time?  What made Perdonia initially popular?  What brought them into the CT in droves (relatively, that is;)) during the BoB, or during the first half of the week of Sicily?  I see two reasons.  First, we offered something different.  Either a new terrain was offered, a new and unique (from the MA) plane-set, or simply a quasi-historical feel of immersion lacking in the MA.  It is like a scenario that doesn’t require registration, and doesn’t require players to plan their schedule around it.  Some people love military history, and play AH for that primary reason.  They look for an experience that gives them that “I was there” feeling.  The other reason is that the MA environment itself drove them away.  Too many people, endless and mindless furballs, and a perception that civility had been lost.  It simply got boring for them, to the point that they were able to overcome the lemming-like instinct to click on “MA” simply because they always have before, and because that’s where all the other people were.  In short, they longed for something different.  

In my opinion, the high attendance in the MA is the best thing to happen to the CT.  Simply making the CT a copy of the MA would not make it more popular.  It would, in my opinion eliminate, the primary reasons its core players choose to spend some or all of their AH time there.  In short, the CT is not a replacement for the MA, but an alternative.  As more aircraft are introduced and new terrains become available, I believe the success we had with the BoB set up will repeat itself more often.

Again, the above is only my opinion, based on personal observation, and no doubt colored by my dedication to the CT.  However, as long as I see twenty or more people on during peak times, I’m going to consider the CT a success and plan my future CT set ups accordingly.  At the same time, I will not discourage other CT Staff members from running full plane-set Axis-vs-Allies set ups.  Only time will tell which will be more successful in the long run.  The great thing is, neither has to be wrong.  Thanks for reading this.

Sabre
CT Staff
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline JoeCrip

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2002, 03:37:12 PM »
Well said! I have been playing in the CT lately, and it has been a lot of fun. I dont mind if there are only 5-10 people on, it's still fun. Keep up the good work CT crew!

Offline hblair

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2002, 03:54:29 PM »
Nice post Sabre. :)
Wish I was as good at expressing myelf in type as you are.

Offline Revvin

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2002, 04:04:04 PM »
Well said! to change the CT to be more like the MA negates the whole reason for having the CT.

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2002, 04:12:00 PM »
But Sabre, be careful.

No one suggested making the CT a small MA- what was suggested was a methodical application of different settings. This would allow you to see more clearly what settings work and which ones don't. That isn't unreasonable.

As to the numbers- why do people fly the MA? We can certainly argue that point, but I offer "it's because it's what they're used to". If that is arguable (and it is), the question becomes "how do you transition people to a new paradigm without shocking them?" This is necessary, because the choice exists to revert back to the known, and comfortable, status quo. People won't always eloquently express their feelings over what they felt went wrong, so you don't always get an accurate picture of what caused them to flee. Point is, people tend to stay with what is known, because known is comfortable.

You know as well as I do there is a delicate balance between challenging and frustrating. The game has to be challenging enough to be interesting, yet not so much so that it is frustrating. What was the research posted some time back (I can't remember who posted it) that stated there needs to be a 50-50 chance of success or failure for people to stay interested? Gotta tell you, that rings true to me as a teacher. While it is true there are some who don't mind biting the bullet and taking all their changes at once, I can fairly state there are many more that wouldn't.

I think you guys do a great job. You have a different approach, nothing wrong with that. I don't think an Axis vs. Ally arena can be dismissed out of hand, or on the little evidence gathered so far. Nor do I think there is anything wrong necessarily with limited plane sets- heck, I'd much prefer to fight early war than late war. But I have to think outside myself and ask what it is I believe draws people back to the MA. More selection seems to be the big ticket.

This isn't easy for you, I know, and I don't have a panacea answer to make everyone happy. I guess I don't see anything inherently wrong with a methodical approach.

Offline Toad

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Hey, Sabre...
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2002, 04:18:03 PM »
as I mentioned, I never lose a wink of sleep over the MA, the CT, the TOD, or the scenarios.

My response was in a thread started by a guy who apparently DOES lose sleep over the numbers in the CT and wants to FORCE people to like what he likes.  ;)

If it's all going well in the CT, GREAT! My congratulations. Excuse my even making a suggestion.

(but could ya get the ones who want to FORCE people in there to "stifle it"?)  :)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Sabre

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2002, 04:25:46 PM »
Very well put in return, Kieran.  I appreciate your views very much and will keep them in mind.

Sabre
P.S. I agree with you Toad...forcing the MA to look like the CT makes as little sense to me as making the CT look just like the MA:).  I suspect the fellow you mentioned had good intentions, but I would never recommend such a course as he suggested.  The CT will stand or fall on its own merits.
Sabre
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Offline Dowding

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2002, 04:35:52 PM »
Hi Sabre,

The only reason I don't fly in the CT is the lack of numbers, which seems to equate to more time between fights. I don't have a lot of time online, and the MA allows me to 'get activated' much more rapidly.

I like the CT settings and I can see the great work you guys have done, but it's simply the numbers game.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline grizz

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2002, 05:23:44 PM »
I like the CT too, and try out each new setup as it comes. But some of the terrains are just too hard on my fps and I log out in frustration. It's no fun watching a slide show as people are taking parts off your plane.

I don't have that problem in the MA, even when it's full.

Offline Frodo

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2002, 05:23:47 PM »
Personally I love the CT.Doesn't mean I won't fly the main as I can have fun there also at times.

The CT only needs 20+ to be a lot of fun.Give the new players that came in when AW closed up,a little more time in the game and I think you will see the numbers go up in the CT.

This game has grown to the point where there are ample numbers to populate both.When I see 500 players in the main,I think man just get 20% to just try the CT.Then get 20% of that group to play in the CT on occasion and you have 2 arenas that are viable and a lot of fun in their own way.

To me the main is about capture the flag and to some score matters more than anything.This is fine and if that is what you are after then the main is the place I guess.But to me I fly for the "buzz".Score or capturing bases holds little interest for me and what I am looking for is that awesome fight against fairly even planes and sides,win or lose.In others words the "buzz" is the fight,win or lose.And in the main this can be hard to find at times.

So it is nice to have choices.

Frodo


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Offline majic

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2002, 07:07:28 PM »
I have popped into the CT to give it a try several times and left shortly thereafter.  Why?  No sense of purpose.  (In the MA, there is a goal to work for.)  I 've asked what's what in there and gotten no response.  (I don't think it's because of unfriendliness, just no answer possible as all there is to do is go find an engagement.)  If all it's there for is to get Historical matchups, then fine, that's what you have.  I don't mind that aspect but I personally want more.  So I fly in the MA and live without the historical matchups.  How do you get more people in the CT?  I guess that depends on what you want it to be.  Wish I had something concrete for y'all, but there's too many variables.

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2002, 07:58:58 PM »
Well written and thought-out Sabre.  I agree.

I remember the first time I flew in the CT.
Jarbo was trying to get our squad (The Buccaneers) to hop over to the CT for a few sorties after we had completed our planned missions in the MA.  I didn't know that my squadmate, Sabre, was a CM there, and I responded to Jarbo's request, "I don't want to go to the CT, it sucks."  
Sabre responded, "Why does it suck, eskimo?"
"Because it's nearly empty all the time." I responded.
Many of the other Buccaneers were also reluctant, but we gave it a try.
We had an absolute blast that night, and ever since.
We still spend much more time individually and as a squad in the CT than we do in the MA.

And I thought it sucked before I ever gave it a chance.

For all those who think that the Ct is a slower pace than the MA, sometimes it is.  But, often it has a much faster pace than the MA.  Some maps have bases that are less than 10 miles from each other, even as little as 4 miles!  That means fast action!  CVs also last longer, the limited plane-set and players means that CV feeding furballs can last for hours.  I have had many nights where I have averaged a kill every 2 or 3 minutes for an entire night!  

The classic match-ups are what does it for me, however.  Fighting only Spits and Hurricanes in 109s can be every bit as immersive as a scenario, without the slow pace and wait time.  I actually find myself recalling what I have read about how particular planes fought each other, while I fight.  
The CT isn't for everyone, but I am sure that there are many out there who still think as I did, "It can't be any good because it only draws 5% of what the MA does."

eskimo

Offline Jospe2

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2002, 11:33:13 PM »
Bravo ...... Sabre.  Well written.

I am only 3.5 months into AH and has an ex AW driver I spend most my time in the CT as it reminds me alot more of the Full Realism arena we had.    More of a sense of accomplishment and realism, atleast for me.  

Also, I have flown several missions in the CT that Hazed threw together.  This made it much more enjoyable,  as the nme numbers were not rediculously overwhelming such as to shut out any possible chance of completion.   Wtg Hazed ;)  

Also, I cant wait for the BoB to come back,  I would love to try and get a foot hold on Britian.  

Keep up the good work CT staff!  It is much appreciated.

Jospe

Offline Hooligan

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2002, 01:17:14 AM »
I think the CT is a success for HTC because the format is controlled by players.  If CT players are dissatisfied then it is not HTC's problem.  The CT players get to control how the CT functions and its popularity or lack thereof is strictly up to them.  Basically I see it as HTC giving the CT guys a private sandbox to play in where they can argue among themselves about why nobody wants to join them rather than ranting at HTC.

Hooligan

Offline BigCrate

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Combat Theater a success, because...
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2002, 01:17:50 AM »
Make only these small changes :). No dar just counters to locate the general area of wherethe fighting is at. Make the icons say 109, spit etc. for nme icons or Tac, Dano etc. for friendlies no distances. And thats it!! :)

BTW the CT is my new home!!! If I fly in the MA it will be jabo hops only. For some reason I score more kills in the CT than in the MA. The MA sucks if ya ask me its to damn crowded and and have to be a altmonkey to have a alt adv. Dweebs crowd the skies in spits and niks and if thats not bad enough it always takes at least 3 of  em to kill me.. I'll out fly all of em but I alway find the ground or a nice HO..

CT team don't change the CT for nothing!!!!!

CT Team

Cw
475th Sq. "Satans Angles" 475th Fg.