Author Topic: It's time to give perk value for missions  (Read 561 times)

Offline SKurj

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2002, 09:38:47 AM »
Perks for OFFENSIVE missions would not change the way I play.

Perks for defensive missions where I fly when I want, I would likely take those missions 100% of the time.


SKurj

Offline Seeker

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2002, 09:54:16 AM »
"Deja,
One of the things I'm going to try to start doing is organizing my missions into actual 4 ship flights by splitting up the roster. If that starts working would you be more interested in flying missions?"


I would be.

There's rarely a formal briefing for missions, and very often no way points and such.

It's my opinion that unless every plane type/flight has a clued up designated leader it's not a mission, just a gang bang.

As far as perks go, the only way perks should figure into a mission is if some way is found to redistribute them amongst the members.

So some one with a huge bank can bank roll a four ship of 262's, for example.


I'd like to see a lot more multi role missions, such as train busters and their top cover, for example, rather than the usual horde warrior over a base.

I also (going out on a side note) would like to see a lot more cheap perks. It's a kick for a newbie to fly one, and it's something for them to aim for, like their first kill.

Offline Vipermann

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2002, 11:37:13 AM »
Quote
When your plane choice makes it way more difficult for the others to have fun.


So when you fly your favorite plane and shoot me down everytime your making it difficult for me to have fun. Does that mean you shouldn't be allowed to fly that plane?

Just askin is all
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Offline WBHoncho

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2002, 11:37:36 AM »
pedrhaps award perks for mission only if field capture is successful.

Offline Honch

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2002, 01:23:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKDejaVu

THE KEY TO MAKING MISSIONS BETTER FOR EVERYONE IS MAKING THEM RELEVANT, CHALLENGING AND EFFECTIVE.


a.k.a. "fun"

Offline lazs2

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2002, 02:45:47 PM »
vipermann said "So when you fly your favorite plane and shoot me down everytime your making it difficult for me to have fun. Does that mean you shouldn't be allowed to fly that plane?

Just askin is all"

Well.... my favorite plane is a -1a.   It is about as mediocre as it gets and if a couple of pretty good sticks didn't fly it it would have an even worse K/D than it does which is pretty pitifull as it is..  No... me flying a mediocre plane doesn't affect you in near the same way as a far superior one would.   Look at the K/D of the Tempest for instance..  simply choosing it gives you a huge advantage.    If everyone has fairly equal plane choices then things are inherently more fair.    

madbird... perhaps i am not the only person who can't see how flying an untouchable tempest at 20k all alone waiting for someone assleep at the switch or afk to kill...... takes more SA than entering a large furball at "500 feet"  with a -1a?
lazs

Offline Vipermann

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2002, 03:04:56 PM »
Quote
Look at the K/D of the Tempest for instance.. simply choosing it gives you a huge advantage.


I think you'll agree that it's K/D would drop quite a bit if it wasn't a perk plane

Quote
If everyone has fairly equal plane choices then things are inherently more fair.


I agree totally with this. Everyone has the choice to fly any plane they want that is offered. You have the choice to fly a perk plane if you so desired. The choice is yours to fly a lesser plane. The choice is theres to fly a perk plane.

The only way I can see making it totally fair all the time is to give everyone the same plane, I'm sure HTC wouldn't be around much longer if that happened.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2002, 03:10:38 PM by Vipermann »
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Offline MadBirdCZ

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2002, 04:39:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Look at the K/D of the Tempest for instance..  simply choosing it gives you a huge advantage.


Why? Because it has quite high K/D ? I dont se any advantage in it... :confused:

Quote
Originally posted by Vipermann
I think you'll agree that it's K/D would drop quite a bit if it wasn't a perk plane


It would.... Drastically... Tempest would become No. 1 pick for all those low level furballers... It would become prolly even more poplular than a N1KI or La7 are today ;)  IMO  Fast plane, 4 Hizookas insta killing weapons... All should be glad its perked as it is...

Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
If everyone has fairly equal plane choices then things are inherently more fair.


You are 100% right on this one. But for this to happen you would need either RPS in MA or you should go to CT instead of MA. But since MA is what it is, its all depends on what ppl like to fly for their money. And I have to say that its perfectly OK with me...

And if you think that over 15k interesting adrenaline pumping fights are nonexistant... Let me asure you that there are same or maybe even better fights up there than down there :) You should try to climb that high one day its refreshing...

But anyway Im devoting this tour to LW metal... Im flying 109E and G6/10 or 190A8 / D9 plus an F6F when Im gonna be forced to operate from CV... Of course I may roll out the Tempest for a ride time to time if too frustrated by those low knifefights... ;)

Offline Preon1

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2002, 10:51:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
I can honestly say.... not at all preon.

The main drawback to missions is the delay in starting... the fact that you could end up with someone asking how to start their engine as a wingman and all sorts of stuff I'd just rather avoid.

Combine that with the simple fact that 75% of all missions I see are based on the milkrun philosophy and I'll stick with my own style.  You want to start a trend... make meaningful missions that do something other than send 1/3 of your forces against 3 people.  Diversions... planned attacks... whatever.

THE KEY TO MAKING MISSIONS BETTER FOR EVERYONE IS MAKING THEM RELEVANT, CHALLENGING AND EFFECTIVE.

Perks aint got nothing to do with them.  All increasing the incentive to go on missions in their current form will do is to promote more missions in their current form.


I'm sorry I haven't replied to this in a while.  The sad part about missions is that there isn't enough skill and training involved in executing missions.

However, I disagree that all missions are based on gangbanging philosophy.  I have flown in several missions to date that will arrive over the target field to find it capped and awaiting goons.  Generally speaking, when I'm in command, I'll send one flight (4 planes) to ensure that the town is down and send a couple goons while the rest of the group is redirected elsewhere.

This illustrates two things:
1. People who fly missions are becoming more objective oriented.
2. People who fly missions are willing to take commands from their leaders in the mission.

I agree that perking missions may offer bonus points to newbies, but then again, I don't think that would be such a bad thing.  I don't see people flying a 262 or a Tempest into combat as much as a threat because they're MUCH more afraid of getting shot down than I am.  They don't become a threat until they are piloted by somebody who is competent behind the stick and then you know that that person would have the points anyway.

What I see as the bonus will be exactly what DejaVu alluded to: more numbers.  The (dare I use the word) community of mission goers has come to the point where we can offer a lot to the new player.  They get the added comfort level of flying with larger numbers and seeing one side of combat as it can be carried out from more experienced players, and the rest of us get another set of bombs guns and rockets.

I agree that in the end, waiting for 5-10 minutes in the tower or the maproom kills the idea of missions for many people.  However, if perking missions gives newbies a chance to give missions a second look, then we might be able to see a lot more cooperation in the MA.

Offline lazs2

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2002, 02:25:03 PM »
If you guys think that the tempest is not a far superior plane to the others then you are delusional.   It would have an even higher K/D if it were used more.  It is perked because it is superior.   Why do you suppose it is perked?

Point is... the more perk planes in the arena the more lopsided it is and the less chance anyone not flying a perk plane has.  The less real variety we have... Perk planes shift the plane choices to later and later war with more and more mid war planes falling into dissuse.

preons idea is fine except that it adds perk points to the pool..  in effect, it increases the amount of perk planes I will see and...... they will be flown by just the kind of "live on line" anal types that would contribute to an unbalanced and unfun arena.
lazs

Offline Karnak

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2002, 03:06:02 PM »
lazs2,

So, you can fly your "Uberbird" but that is the top end that is acceptable?

You're criteria seems to be "If its better than my F4U-1D, its shouldn't be in the game."

Well, your F4U-1D isn't fair to my Spitfire Mk Ia, so I think it needs to be perked out of existance too. :rolleyes: (actually, I fly Mosquito Mk VIs mostly)

I love how people like to say their ride is so hard to use or is mediocre at best.  Every time I've flown the F4U-1D I have found it extremely easy to be successful with.  It accelerates and climbs like a dog and doesn't turn great, but for some reason it just works.  It isn't a mediocre ride, it just isn't as good as a Tempest, Ta152H-1, F4U-4, Spitfire Mk XIV or Me262.

MadBirdZ,

Try the Ta152H-1.  It is highly under rated.
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Offline lazs2

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It's time to give perk value for missions
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2002, 08:39:04 AM »
actually... I fly the -1a.
lazs