Author Topic: Wish I knew who the F6f was. (Read 615 times)

Apache · « **on:** April 11, 2002, 11:34:43 AM »

Lastnight against the bish, I'm near thier base and spot an f6f higher than me at a little over 5000 yards away. I start a slow climb and head to him. He turns away and starts climbing. I turn away and give him my 6 to see if he'll take it. He turns. I turn back, ready for the engagement. He turns away again & starts climbing. This goes on until we are at 20k.

Just as I'm satisfied that this fight ain't happening, an f4u and a 110 appear 2k below me at 2 oc and they ain't runnin'. They are comin' for me, no doubt about it. As I'm lookin' at these 2 over my right wing, I glance forward. Guess who I see comin' right at me? The F6f.

Well, needless to say the fight was on. It went on for 3 or 4 minutes I guess. A fun 3 on 1. Just us. Nobody else jumping in. They bounced me all the way to the deck. My sole target was the f6f

. I missed a couple of shots on him. Just as I would line up, I would have to evade one of the others. He eventually hit the deck, hard. I don't know if he augered or what happened. I just saw him crash. I didn't get a kill. The f4u eventually got me but, what the heck. Twas fun anyway, 'cept for that skeerdycat.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2002, 11:55:22 AM »

What were you flying Apache? I'm curius as to what plane an F6F could continue to out-climb.

BTW.. didn't have my F6F up last night;)

AKDejaVu

Apache · « **Reply #2 on:** April 11, 2002, 12:38:34 PM »

No, wasn't you DJ. He didn't want to fight. Never seen the day you turned away, lol.

I was in a spit9. He never let me get closer than 5000, so we didn't get close to co-e. As I would manuver to gain speed to close, he would climb. As I climbed, he would manuver to gain speed and pull away.

What I should have done in retrospect was be more aggressive. I should have closed first, then worried about alt. I was trying to match his alt. first, then close.

Fariz · « **Reply #3 on:** April 11, 2002, 12:52:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Apache
No, wasn't you DJ. He didn't want to fight. Never seen the day you turned away, lol.

I was in a spit9. He never let me get closer than 5000, so we didn't get close to co-e. As I would manuver to gain speed to close, he would climb. As I climbed, he would manuver to gain speed and pull away.

What I should have done in retrospect was be more aggressive. I should have closed first, then worried about alt. I was trying to match his alt. first, then close.

Ahhhhhh, you was in Spit IX then

Fariz

popeye · « **Reply #4 on:** April 11, 2002, 12:58:53 PM »

Spoit IX vs. Hellcat, and you want him to let you get co-E?

Apache · « **Reply #5 on:** April 11, 2002, 01:04:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by popeye
Spoit IX vs. Hellcat, and you want him to let you get co-E?

Yeah, I guess your right pop. I should have been more careful. I mean, the hellcat coulda whacked me good. Even as bad as I am, I'm 14-2 against the spit9 in a hellcat over the last few tours.

Soulyss · « **Reply #6 on:** April 11, 2002, 01:11:17 PM »

eh, a good Hellcat pilot can tackle a spit9 co-E. It would be a close fight, worth a go at least if the hellcat pilot can keep the speeds around 250 or so could be a pretty good fight.

Steven · « **Reply #7 on:** April 11, 2002, 01:37:53 PM »

<<>> -Soulyss

A good Hellcat pilot vs what, a poor Spit pilot? I disagree on your overall meaning and I purport that the Hellcat is at a disadvantage in a 1v1 vs a Spitfire and it shouldn't be close. I believe the Spitfire to have superior wing loading and thrust (climb) and is no slouch in the dive. The only way I can down a Spitfire is to get a good jump on him and if that goes awry, the last thing I do is tangle with him and instead I'll find my fun somewhere else. But this is from my perspective and I'm not any great wizz-bang pilot.

214thCavalier · « **Reply #8 on:** April 11, 2002, 02:49:36 PM »

Superior wing loading and climbing ability are great advantages to have over opponent but they are not everything, F6F-5 has at least 4 advantages over the spit IX but its up to you to find them

I have tried fights in F6F-5 v Spit9 in MA in coalt or at disadvantaged 1v1 situations and F6F-5 can hold its own quite well.
In fact my kill rate v spit 9's was going so well in slow stall fights that i even tried taking on spitV's but alas my overconfidence was killing me

Of course there is the possibility they were unexperienced pliots.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #9 on:** April 11, 2002, 03:01:46 PM »

I agree with Cav.. an experienced F6F pilot vs an equally experienced Spit IX pilot is a very close battle (Edge going to the F6F IMO). My main problem is distinguishing a Spit V from a Spit IX on a rear aproach... you definately want to use two entirely different aproaches with both aircraft.

AKDejaVu

streakeagle · « **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2002, 03:18:49 PM »

Historically, turn radius/sustained turning ability are defensive advantages, but not really important to being successful offensively. Victory goes to those with rugged well-armed boom-n-zoom aircraft. If that wasn't true, the A6M and Oscar would have ruled the Pacific. Bf109s primarily lost to Spits due to homefield advantage: fuel loadout/shortage. Even then, they tended to trade 1 for 1.

Steven · « **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2002, 03:28:05 PM »

<<>> -Cavalier

Aww, rats! But I realize this is coming from one of the best Hellcat sticks around. I haven't flown in what seems about two months and I'm dying to get back and refresh my memory of F6F vs Spitfire. I have had a few successes in 1v1 battles against the Spitfire, but I usually attributed it to a slightly superior beginning position or lesser enemy pilot skill. I know the F6F can't horizontally outturn the Spitfire and I know it can't outclimb it in the long run. I would guess pointing the nose down to get speed up and yanking it vertical is what worked for me.

Anyway, I yield to the experts. In my personal experience, the Spitfires slapped me around with impunity the short time I concentrated on the Hellcat. To be honest, I can't tell a SpitV from a SpitIX when I fight and maybe that is part of my problem. I need to KNOW my adversary.

Steven · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2002, 03:35:59 PM »

<<>> -StreakEagle

There was superiority of numbers that also assisted the Allies in the Pacific. But I take your quote to mean that there is a position of advantage at the outset for the Hellcat. Unless I misunderstand something, I find it hard to boom-&-zoom someone from a starting position of equality. I do understand your point about turning being defensive...even Robin Olds once said if he had a P-51 Mustang during the Vietnam War the enemy would have never touched him. However, it's not strictly a defensive ability because you need to point the nose to fire and going with the above quote Robin Olds continued to say he might not have been able to touch the enemy either. From a position of equality, I learned to be very wary about climbing against a Spitfire...even to extend nose-high and wrap it back around to merge again.

You guys really have me itching to start flying again!

Fariz · « **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2002, 05:06:37 PM »

Spit IX is better than f6f in a close dogfight. Cavalier, I did not fly Spit IX for quite a long time, but I think we can duel in DA some day to check if your "4 other advantages" actually work.

1 thing, it shall be a close dogfight, so after engagement distance between planes shall not be more than 2k (no runs by other words). I know, that using in/out tactics f6f can have spit IX any day.

Fariz

Shane · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2002, 05:32:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Apache
I missed a couple of shots on him. Just as I would line up, I would have to evade one of the others. He eventually hit the deck, hard. I don't know if he augered or what happened. I just saw him crash. I didn't get a kill. The f4u eventually got me but, what the heck. Twas fun anyway, 'cept for that skeerdycat.

next time, kick on the film, the new ah film viewer will tell you who it was.

it'll provide ID on planes/pilots out to 8k in the MA i think.

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