we're getting closer....AH Dueling Ladder!!!

[Camel]

I would like to see huge grandstand seating, so we can watch the fights! With hotdogs and popcorn.

Okay, Im new to the ladders, but I'd like to keep it same planes per round. I also like the 3rd party hosting idea.

[Lance]

Its obvious that flying a different plane from your adversary will require different skills than if you fly the same plane.  If I'm in a 51 going against a spit V, I am going to fly completely differently than I would if I was flying against another 51.  I'd hate to see either of these left out, so why not go with something along the lines of...

Duel 1:  Adversary's choose whatever plane they want.

Duel 2: Challenger (or higher ranked pilot?) chooses the plane that both duelists will fly.

Duel 3: Duelists choose whatever plane they want.

Duel 4: Challengee (or lower ranked pilot?) chooses the plane that both duelists will fly.

Duel 5:  Duelists choose whatever plane they want.

Duels 2 and 4 would be mostly a test of ACM skills as the planes are dead evenly matched.  Duels 1, 3 and 5 would be test your skill with your favorite ride.  Or, conversely, you could make 1, 3 and 5 be the same plane duels  if you wanted to make ACM's the more dominant test in ladder duels.

Gordo
Fat Drunk Bastards!

[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 04-23-2000).]

[niknak]

Do you have to have a paid account to participate or are all duels done through H2H?

[Exile]

A paid account will give you access to the Special Events Arena (perfect for dueling). With or Without a paid account you could still use a H2H arena.

[-ammo-]

Guys i gotta disagree about the same plane thing. It should be the competitors choice. If they agree to same planes thats great! Me--Im for "fly what you bring". only stipulation is they must agree prior to taking off. (BTW even if same planes were the rule--all would still not be equal. The gear that one uses has a BIG affect too.--I use a full CH setup--pedals, stick, and throttle and it has helped me immensely!!)

another thing would be the moment all are commited. IE... after D 7.0 someones the loser, no excuses!

If H2H--a 3rd party will need to host because of the configurable setting of H2H--ie gun lethality.

If SEA--we must decide whether fuel will be a deciding issue (ask Ghosth if it ever happens  

Cold merge should be standerdized! As to Altitude--it should be up the parties. Really undecided on this one. If it was standerdized then there would be no arguments when the 2 AC merged. But if the pilots decided then there is the chance it was not dicussed prior to merge and "no fair" is screamed. I however like the idea of merging at any alt we wish. 10K on up to 25k for that matter.

there are other things to consider as well--I will think on it    there are some folks here that are practiced duelers and they need to speak up  

Ammo---<looking forward to this>


one more thing---I dont think the TA is suitable for the ladder due to the ammo loadout and fuel modifier.


     

[This message has been edited by -ammo- (edited 04-23-2000).]

[This message has been edited by -ammo- (edited 04-23-2000).]

[By-Tor]

 The only problem I have with different plane duels is that some guys will take a plane that allows them to control the fight from the outset.Consider a 109 pilot that climbs to the perch and does the standard BnZ thing until he gets the kill or the other guy runs out of gas.
 My reason for flying a duel is to pit pilot skills-not to pit plane attributes.I know that that fighting style is viable and fair,but If I enjoyed that kind of fight,I'd fly in the Main arena.
 To my taste,the very nature of a duel is pitting pilot skill vs pilot skill.I vote to fly same plane rounds and let the combatants
agree beforehand what the plane types involved will be.
 My other point of contention is the idea of awarding a victory to the last plane to run out of fuel.Personally,I dont want the victory if thats how it came about.It seems to me that 25 % fuel is PLENTY to see a same plane fight to its conclusion.And if not -I'd suggest a refly.
 Or-perhaps separate categories on the ladder itself.
1. sameplane duels
2. historical match-ups
 That should keep just about everyone content I'd think.
 Looking forward to this very much ; )

[Kieren]

*And you didn't think anyone was interested, eh Mason? <wink>*

I think the main thing, in all categories, is that there is agreement before the wheels leave the runway.

I think two people can decide if they want different or same planes. Again, the fallback here is if even one side wants same planes, you make it same planes.

Alt should be another area of agreement. Fights are much different at 25K than they are at 10K. Again, both sides can decide for themselves where this happens.

I don't know enough about the H2H component yet to comment on whether arena settings are visible; still, it seems a good idea to find a neutral host when possible, if for no other reason than to have a witness. I have seen some very good fights during the tournament, and am glad I was there to see them.

What I would suggest is that everyone think of five rules that are most important to them. We can then collectively decide what are good and bad ideas, and modify as necessary. No one's ideas are bad, but there will be some that won't get used (so no hurt feelings). We should be able to devise a list of 20 or so rules off of that list, wouldn't you say?

[hblair]

 

The only problem I have with different plane duels is that some guys will take a plane that allows them to control the fight from the outset.Consider a 109 pilot that climbs to the perch and does the standard BnZ thing until he gets the kill or the other guy runs out of gas.
My reason for flying a duel is to pit pilot skills-not to pit plane attributes.I know that that fighting style is viable and fair,but If I enjoyed that kind of fight,I'd fly in the Main arena.
To my taste,the very nature of a duel is pitting pilot skill vs pilot skill.I vote to fly same plane rounds and let the combatants
agree beforehand what the plane types involved will be.

Preach on brother.  

Bytorr is also a veteran of the WB's ladder that I flew in. It used Historical matchups in planes. While good in some ways, it is bad in others. There are some matchups that just aint fair. If you fight a 109 flying energy genius like a 'konrad', you are beaten my friend, from the outset of the merge.

He will smartly do a super immelman and perch way a*s up there and kick your a*s when the oppurtunity is just right.

This will happen here too, to some degree.

In the end, historical matchups sound wonderful, but aren't all they're cracked up to be.

I respectfully vote same planes  

[By-Tor]

 Just had a rare moment of clarity  ,and it occured to me that it would be SOO cool to have the ladder split into overall rankings for EACH plane type.Then the averages for all AC type columns tallied in an OVERALL best column.
 What this effectively does is offers, (how many fighters are there currently in AH?)say ,10 top spots to aspire to instead of only 1 #1 spot.
 Each plane type will have its own #1 pilot!
And the true MASTER will sit atop the OVERALL
composited main dueling column!This affords someone the possiblity of being 'p-38' master for example even tho he cant save his own butt flying a...109g10!
 I feel this would be ALOT more fun if a pilot could aspire to specialize in a specific plane even tho he couldnt hope to beat the OVERALL Champ.
 Ys -thats it!!!  If I could learn to beat EADG or KONRAD or JASE etc. in even 1 plane of my choice-THAT would be ALOT more fun than sitting at # 25(ex.) overall with little hope of climbing much higher.
 This may be the BEST idea ive EVER had so someone please concur!

[Kieren]

You got my vote, By-Tor.

This addresses my only complaint of any ladder, that is, it becomes a contest for the best Spitfire pilot.

Good thinking, I like it.

[-ammo-]

I like it Bytor. I still like the idea of traditional matches too (and not so traditional matches)  

[Exile]

I really like this idea!!!

Excellent idea! This would add some complexity to the back end (thanks  ), but it adds a whole new twist to the ladder. You may not be a "38 Master", but you could still be the "Overall Master" if you're competent in a wide range of planes.

This idea should gain alot of support. Implementing this will force "same plane" matches. Challenger having the choice in fights 1,3 and 5.

WTG By-Tor!! This is getting exciting  

"Something wonderful is coming."

Ex ......................

[Exile]

Would variants be grouped together or would they need to be seperate? Alot of variants have very little differences, while others such as the 190 seem to change alot.

I'm all for grouping them.

Thoughts?

[By-Tor]

 I know its probobly ALOT more work for you to keep them separate .but,the spit 5 and 9 almost demand a different figthing style to get the MOST out of each.Same is true of the 109 series in particular.While the 109f is a capable angle fighter, The 109g10 requires a completely different combat doctrin to be succesfull.
 I vote to keep each model seperate,tho if the work involved for you is daunting-id be MORE than happy to just have an all inclusive (ex. Spit) ranking etc.

[Exile]

That's kind of what I thought. The extra work won't really be that bad anyways