Kill Per Time

[MANDOBLE]

I rarelly came back alive from jabo missions, and this is rewarding me with a hi K/T ratio saving a precious RTB time. IMO, if we are unable to land or ditch in friendly territory, a time penalty should be applied.

[Urchin]

It is a trade-off Mandoble.  If you ditch, bail, or crash, you get a higher K/T.  If you manage to return to base and land, you get more points.  Both categories are counted when calculating your rank.  

It really depends on what everyone else is doing.  If a lot of people are RTB'ing, you are better off getting a couple more kills and crashing (because there will be less competition there)- if everyone is crashing you are better off RTB'ing.  Or, you could do like me and try to RTB every sortie and don't worry about it.

[AKDejaVu]

Mandoble.. if you are unable to reach friendly territory, you are penalized in K/D and Score.  You feel there should be more of a penalty?

I disagree.

AKDejaVu

[Tac]

Yes, there should be NO POINTS awarded if you dont land or bail or ditch in friendly territory OR if you die.

I find it ridiculous to REWARD quake flying. As i've said before, you can get more perkies in a n1k/spit per hour than with a higher eny plane just because the n1k/spit can kill 3X easier in a furball, and even if he dies the n1k/spit still gives the player nice perks.

[MANDOBLE]

Urchin, usually that trade-off beneficts keeping in the combat zone til your fuel is gone.
1 - You will get more kills, so, similar points than landing your plane.
2 - You will have a much better kill per time, 2/3 of your flight time will be in the combat zone and then ditching in the frontier between bases, or even bailing out.
3 - You will have similar kills per sortie.

Suppose next example:
109G6 75% of fuel, using 25% to get to the combat area, 25% fighting and 25% for RTB. In two flights it has 25 + 25% of fuel to fight and get kills, using 50% + 50% traveling to/from the combat zone.

That means that if you dont RTB you will have a combat time equivalent to two flights with a refuel, but 1/3 of the time you will be fighting very light on fuel, so with a much better performer plane and more chances of getting kills and still with good chances of getting a last ditch.

In the other hand, actuallly, long CAP patrols are penalized with a very poor K/T while they should not be.

[AKDejaVu]

In the other hand, actuallly, long CAP patrols are penalized with a very poor K/T while they should not be.

They are also rewarded with a higher k/d ratio.  There is a tradeoff for virtually every action in AH.  No one flying style is rewarded more than the other.

If you think K/D is important... fly in a manner that reflects it.  If you think K/S is important... fly in a manner that reflects it.  If you think K/T is important... fly in a manner that reflects it.

What you are trying to do is stress the importance of one over the other... as if one style should be more condoned than the other.  Its called imposing beliefs on others.

AKDejaVu

[MANDOBLE]

Originally posted by AKDejaVu
They are also rewarded with a higher k/d ratio.

I dont know whether you are talking about StarTreckV or Cylon Revenge, but in AH long CAP patrols looking for buff raids end usually with 0 kills and probably one death (as soon as you engange a Ki67) after 15 minutes patrolling a large area, while short flights going into the forever furball end with 4, 5, 6 ... 10 kills in few minutes.

The guys doing real CAP missions are not only trying to stop hi cons and buffs (the work noone wants to do), they are also being penalized with a very poor K/T.

[hitech]

0 kills and 1 death, and you should get a good score for this?

[MANDOBLE]

Originally posted by hitech
0 kills and 1 death, and you should get a good score for this?

They will not only get a bad scoring, they will be also penalized for the long time airborne trying to protect their bases instead just getting into the furball.

Basically, If I pickup a P51 full of fuel and take off just to patrol against buffs, If I survive even with only 1 kill, I'll be penalized with a very poor K/T. If I pickup the same P51 with 50% of fuel, I forget about buff existance and I dive into a furball, I will get more kills in less time, I will problably have much more surviving chances than looking for buffs to engange, but, problably, my base will be nuked when I RTB.

I'm not asking to reward these that do long CAPs just for nothing (if they got killed or if they are unable to catch any buff or hi con), but, at least, dont penalize their K/T.

[Mathman]

Life is full of sacrifices.  You choose what to do.  There are consequences to most things.  You need to decide what is most important to you.

Like Deja said, one thing affects the other.  You want a high K/T, then you will probably sacrifice your K/D (which I am a good example of btw... hi K/T, comparatively low K/D).  If you value your K/D, you will probably end up sacrificing K/T.

You make it sound as if K/T is the most important aspect of the game and scoring.  From what I understand, K/D, K/S, K/T, hit %, and points are all equally weighted.  If K/T is important to you, you need to fly in a way that will enable you to get a high K/T.  End of story.

[Tac]

hitech, here's how I see it.

Now:

If im interested in points, grabbing a low eny plane like a spitIX or a n1k or la7 will give me more points per hour than a med-hi eny plane (205, p51b, p47d11, spit/hurri 1). Find me a furball and get 6 to 8 kills per each sortie or 2 just by quaking. Die every time, but HO'ing and spraying cannon around gets the kills I need.

Compared to the 2 or 3 kills i'd get in a mid-hi eny plane, and taking twice or 3 times as long to get those kills than the guy in the spitix/n1k/la7... in the end, its the low eny quakerides that earn you more perks per time.

If perks were only awarded by ditching/bailing/landing in friendly territory (ditch=50% of perks, bail=20% of perks, landing=110% of perks), and dying or ditching/bailing/landing on enemy territory gave you ZERO perks, then you'd get a fair system.

For as things are now, quake flyers are getting rewarded more than the strat minded players in perk points.

ALTERNATIVELY, why not give a superperk boost for missions?

If you join mission and if mission is successful, those involved receive 200% normal perks for their kills and a fixed number of perks for joining and succeeding in mission.

[Tac]

From an already buried thread:

Originally posted by Tac
Not a bad idea. Really.

WW2OL ALMOST *repeat, ALMOST* did something right with their mission system awarding points.

In AH it would be great if the people that join a mission get..say, timesX normal perks per kill and the person that makes the mission must SPEND some perks of his own per mission he makes, BUT if the mission is successful, person that made mission should get perks in return.

How to say a sucessful mission? Separate them into categories. Give each mission a time limit. Once mission takes off, no more people can join.

Fighter Sweep (mission editor instantly removes all bombers and vehicles and boats from the selectable AC list). Time limit: 45 minutes. Mission must either return with half of the AC that took off or kill more enemy AC than they lost at the end of time limit.

Perk modifier for those joining mission: X1.5 perks per kill, +5 perks per person if mission successful
Perk cost to make mission: 5 perks
Perks gained by mission CO if sucessful: 8 perks (added to the ones he got for shooting down stuff)

Bomb (mission editor removes all fighters and vehicles and boats from AC list). Time limit: 2 hours. Mission editor will ask for target to be hit. Mission will be sucessful if said Strat Target is dropped to 40% or lower. If target is an airfield, then all hangars must be destroyed (FH, BH and VH = hangars) by the end of the time limit. Half of the mission bombers must survive.

Perk Modifier for those joining mission: X5 perks per target destroyed/fighter shot down.
Perk cost to make mission: 5 perks
Perks gained by mission CO if successful: 20 perks (added to the perks he got during mission)

Jabo (mission editor removes all bombers and vehicles and boats from AC list). Time limit: 1 hour . Mission editor will ask for target to be hit. Mission will be sucessful if said Strat Target is dropped to 40% or lower. If target is an airfield, then all hangars must be destroyed (FH, BH and VH = hangars) by the end of the time limit. Half of the mission Jabo's must survive.

Perk Modifier for those joining mission: X2 perks per target destroyed/fighter shot down.
Perk cost to make mission: 5 perks
Perks gained by mission CO if successful: 10 perks (added to the perks he got during mission)

Escort (mission editor shows "escortable" missions (aka, bomb, jabo, fighter sweep) in planner and asks to select one; removes all bombers, vehicles and boats from list). Time limit: 1.5 hours. Mission is sucesful if half or more of the other mission's participants survive at the end of the time limit.

Perk Modifier for those joining mission: X2.5 perks
Perk cost to make mission: 3 perks
Perks gained by mission CO if successful: 12 perks (added to the perks he got during mission)

For ground units:

Defense (mission editor removes all 'except for gv's from selectable list). Mission planner will ask for what asset is to be defended (field, strat target). Mission sucessful if field is not taken by end of time limit. Time limit: 1 hour.

Perk Modifier for those joining mission: X1.5 perks
Perk cost to make mission: 2 perks
Perks gained by mission CO if successful: 6 perks (added to the perks he got during mission)

Offense:
Same as defense, but mission is sucesful if target is captured by end of time limit (1.5 hours). Perk modifier X2

Naval Units:

Assault: Same as GV offense, but with LVT's and PT's. Time limit:2 hours. Mission sucesful if target taken within time limit. Perk modifier X3

CAP: Mission editor removes all but carrier-based fighters from the selectable AC list. Editor asks for friendly fleet to be CAP'd. Mission must take off from said carrier. Time limit: 1 hour. Mission sucesfful if carrier not sunk by end of time limit.

Perk Modifier for those joining mission: X1.5 perks
Perk cost to make mission: 10 perks
Perks gained by mission CO if successful: 4 perks (added to the perks he got during mission
Note: Doesnt give much perks and costs a more perks to set mission up to prevent people from "farming" perks by cap'ing cv's that are nowhere near the enemy.

It would be nice as well that if the mission CO makes a flight of perk planes, he could have the option of paying for the perk rides of others.. at half perk cost.

In WW2OL It is good to join missions because it gives you access to the heavy tanks 'n stuff, which you wouldnt have access to unless you are in a backfield or uncontested ground. But the result is great, people flock to them. In AH the above system could allow Chairborne Rangers and Desktop Generals to work together for once

[TMASTadon]

Seems to me HTC has it pretty well figured out. The operative word in all those computations is KILLS. Doesnt matter if you live, dont live, or how much you fly (read: GET TO PLAY!) you're rewarded for KILLS. Again, its all about choices and decisions and everyone is free to make that call for themselves. WHAT they want to fly, HOW they want to fly(play), where they want to fly(play) and what is most important to them (ie. pts, perks, living, k/d, k/t, k/s, hit%, use buffs long range for Country, Defend against buff for country, and on and on it goes). The ways to enjoy this game sometimes seem almost endless sometimes and that is the beauty of it.

Deliver the Dweeb from surfdom! Power to the people! Humble masses UNITE!! Quake riding, uber plane flying, fuball loving dweebs throw off the yoke of tyranny and oppression! Hail to HTC for our MagnaCarta!!! Long live the KING! DOWN with Elitist Fascism!!!

[Urchin]

Tac, it isn't about perks.  I think he is talking about points, I.E. rank.  

Mandoble, it all really does balance out in the end, as far as I can see.  You are not ranked on any particular category, but on the SUM of all of them.  So for instance, someone who prefers 'patrol' style missions and is a good shot will probably have a good K/D, a good accuracy rating, decent points (he doesn't manage a ton of kills, but he gets all his points because he lands them- tying in with the K/D) and a low K/T (now known as Kills/Hour).  

Someone who really really likes furballing will have a lower K/D, probably a lower accuracy (less time to set up the shot, more snapshots), a good K/T, and decent points (gets a lot of kills, but he dies/bails/gets captured a lot).  

Furthermore, it isn't even based on how you stack up against one person overall- it is how you stack up against EVERYONE overall.  I'm sure you know this, but I'll rehash my understanding of it.  Every category is 'ranked'.  To get your overall rank, you take all the categorys and add them together.  The person with the lower overall total has a better rank.  

For instance, me and you.

I'm ranked 11th overall in fighters.  

I have a K/D of 5.6066 (which is outstanding in my opinion )  I have a better K/D than every one but 27 guys, which is why I'm ranked 28th overall in that category.

I have a K/S of 2.7581, which is also pretty good.  I'm ranked 30th in that category.  

Those are my high points lol.

My K/T is 7.56 kills per hour.  That means it takes me about 8 minutes of flying per kill.  That isn't to bad for me, since I do a lot of 'patrolling' as you'd call it.  I take off from rear bases to come in with alt, I try to land all my sorties.  But once I'm in a fight, I'm in a fight- I usually get the kills pretty fast once I get in there.  That averages out to a fairly reasonable 168th place.  

My hit % is decent, I've done better and I've done worse.  Right now it is 11.53%, good enough to land me 130th place overall.  

My 'points total' is 15949.1245, good enough for 145th place.  I've got some good time in this month, which is why my points are comparatively high.  

My 'Total' (used for my overall fighter rank) is 501.  That 'total' is good enough to get me 11th place overall in fighters.  

Now take Mathman.  He just said he likes to furball and doesn't worry so much about landing, so I'll use him to compare with me.

Before I do this, I'll make some guesses.  He probably has a higher K/T than me, but a lower K/D and K/S.  This is because he can kill things faster in a furball, but I can usually get more kills because I pick my fights.  I can't make any guesses about his hit %, but I'd imagine it is pretty good.  

Mathman-  Don't take offense to this PLEASE PLEASE!  Lol.  

Maths K/D is a very respectable 3.2902.  This is a very good K/D for someone that doesn't mind fighting when the odds are against him.  As you can see, he is ranked 101 in that category.  

His K/S is 2.6731, again leading one to believe that he doesn't have many bad sorties .  He is ranked 34th in that category, so my guess on that was wrong.  

His K/T is 11.16 kills per hour.  That means it takes him just under five and a half minutes to get a kill.  He is ranked 25th in that category, so you can see that is an outstanding rating.  

His hit % is 12.3%, better than mine.  This leads me to believe I am a horrible shot, if he is getting more hits in a furball than I am getting by bouncing stupid people .  He is ranked 103 in that category, so even 12.3% isn't an 'awesome' rating, ( I checked some other guys stats, he was rated like 25th with a 15% hit percentage, so it is a fairly large jump within a fairly small percentage).  This would be one excellent way to increase your fighter score if you have a relatively low K/T.  

His points are higher than mine as well, at 26827.1506.  This is enough to earn him a very respectable 36th place overall in that category.  

So, adding up the points totals.  

Me:  28+30+169+130+145=502.

Mathman:  101+34+25+103+36= 299.  

Therefore, he has a higher overall ranking than me.  Furthermore, that means there are 8 people with totals falling somewhere in between me and him.  Perhaps this is a bad overall example since he spanked me so bad (), but you can see here that the key isn't to do awesome in any particular category (although that helps)- it is to do good in all of them.  You can see from my example that me strong points this tour are K/D and K/S, while everything else is pretty average.  Math's strong points are K/S, K/T, and points, while his other two categorys are fairly average.  If I was a really good shot (say I was ranked 25th in hit %), I could overcome my comparitively low K/T and probably be ranked either 3rd or 4th, right near him.  

My advice is just fly the way you've always flown and are comfortable with.  You can have one stat that isn't stellar, and if the rest of them are just awesome than you will be ranked very high.  Conversely, you can have one superb stat (say K/T), but if you die more than you kill and can't hit the broad side of the proverbial barn, your fighter rank will show that.

[Tac]

rank? whazzat?