Author Topic: TaxDay  (Read 1485 times)

Offline fd ski

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« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2002, 08:44:35 PM »
really ?

Let's talk about how a teacher can make a fortune ?

Or maybe a civil worker ?

We can't all be techies or lawyers ya know :)

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2002, 09:40:34 PM »
Put me in for tax reform.. please.

The tax code is so bizzare an army of lawyer/accountants on the government payroll can't even figure it out.

If EVERYBODY in this country had a flat percentage of 10% of their income, and Buisness paid 5% of it's income the national economy would boom, government would be outta debt, the national health plan would be here now and Jerry Springer would run outta material the next day.

How bout it.. a ONE SENTANCE tax code:

Allah you folks with jobs, pay 10%, all buisnesses pay 5%.. no exclusions; no exceptions.

Wouldn't that be sweeeet?
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Offline LoneStarBuckeye

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« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2002, 09:56:30 PM »
Fd Ski:

This is not about how much you make.  It is, rather, about the fact that the tax code is fundamentally flawed in far too many ways to discuss here (I'm with you on the flat tax, Hang).  It will remain as it is, however, because, as someone mentioned earlier, our society has far too much invested in it now to suffer a dramatic change.  

My point is simply that the "rich" vs. middle class or poor conflict that the liberals have worked so hard to foster (and which further guarantees that the tax code will not radically change) is pure, unadulterated crap.  Not only is it detrimental to society, but also it is grounded in misperceptions.  Many people, like myself, that get hit hardest by the tax code (in ways I would not have imagined five years ago) live modest lifestyles and would not be considered "rich" by any ordinary understanding of that term.  

I am sick and tired of being told by liberal politicians that I am not paying my share.  What, exactly, is my share?  What else do they want?  How about I just send each of my paychecks directly to Washington and they can decide how much of it to send back to me?  It would be sort of like an allowance.

If what you really want to argue is that teachers (or social workers or nurses or pastors or counsors or any number of other professionals) should make more money or that it is, as a practical matter, impossible to raise a family of four on a teacher's salary, I won't disagree.  For all its advantages, one drawback of our market system is that one's remuneration is not necessarily tied to the societal value of his work.  There are, however, other, more important rewards than money.  Just ask any teacher who really loves his job.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2002, 09:56:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
And what about those people that bust their bellybutton just as and make less money? Truth be told... I've never seen a consistant correlation between anual salary and "busting ass"..


Bust your *ss and make less money.. you pay less tax. Doesn't change the fact that the ones that succeed shouldn't be punished for their success. That's what's wrong with the system right there. We punish the successful ones... it's why when effective tax rates approach 40% people spend more time avoiding tax than trying to earn more.

Quote
I'm totally against a national sales tax.  Especially a "luxury" tax.  It is a hinderance towards encouraging people to attain better things



So, taxing these same folks' income at the highest rates whether they buy "luxury" items or not is a better deal? At lease with the national sales tax they have a choice. There's no choice involved with the income tax.


Quote
The government should be forced to manage the tax $$$ better.


I doubt very many would argue with you there.. but it IS Congress we're talking about, so no chance.


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Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2002, 09:59:14 PM »
My boss and his creative accountant are always reminding me

..it ain't about how much we make. it's all about how much we keep..[/b]
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline ispar

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« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2002, 11:28:55 PM »
I'm just a naive teenager here, but I have a question about this notion of a national sales tax - how does this make sense? The sales tax is a state tax, and many states rely upon it to help bring in the cash they need to make the budget work. Some, like NH, don't have a sales tax - they usually compensate, with high property taxes, in that example. So when the federal government takes over the sales tax, what happens? It sounds like most of that money will then go to the Feds. So how does this work? Do the individual states have to rely even more on the federal government for money? Is more federal control over state governments what you (predominantly conservative, middle-class) guys want? It make no sense to me... But perhaps I'm missing out on some of the details.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2002, 12:06:58 AM »
ispar, the feds will not "take over" the state sales tax, that will stay with the states, the fed govt will have it's own sales tax in return for dropping the income tax.

as for a flat tax, years ago PA inacted a flat 5% state income tax based on fed adj gross income, the tax was illegal by PA's constution so it was changed to 2.5% on UNADJUSTED gross income,

the 2.5% on UNADJUSTED gross income brought in MORE money than 5% on adjusted gross income, but me and all my fellow workers ended up paying  LESS taxes.

talk among yourselves

Offline mietla

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« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2002, 12:39:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by fd ski
really ?

Let's talk about how a teacher can make a fortune ?

Or maybe a civil worker ?

We can't all be techies or lawyers ya know :)


free market, supply and demand, market price... but this is an entirely different thread.


BTW, not sure what you meant by civil worker, I'm guessing "civil servant", a someone on a government dough.

Do you really want the civil workers to make a fortune?

No work + no responsibility + no accountability + can't be fired + can mess up other people's lives at will + and now, a fortune in salary?...


.. a perfect job. We all should be "civil servants":)

Offline Eagler

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how much of it to send back to me? It would be sort of like an allowance.

Yes, this is what they want

because, of course, they know how to spend it better than you do :)

Just seems to me that when the liberal politicans are speaking to a group of their voters about repealing Bushs tax changes - how it is ruining the country and is the cause of the recession :rolleyes: , the room looks like its full of a bunch of democrats which are in the lower 50% paying 5% of the total tax burden to start with ...

it's an envy thing - pure and simple - which the libs are using to their fullest advantage

damn those "rich" ppl anyway :)
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Offline Curval

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« Reply #69 on: April 16, 2002, 07:19:48 AM »
Ah tax time....

My parents did the best tax planning for me well in advance of my income earning years.  They had me in Bermuda!

No income taxes...none...zero...ziltch. ..zippo

nah, nah nananah
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Offline fd ski

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« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2002, 07:43:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mietla


BTW, not sure what you meant by civil worker, I'm guessing "civil servant", a someone on a government dough.

Do you really want the civil workers to make a fortune?

No work + no responsibility + no accountability + can't be fired + can mess up other people's lives at will + and now, a fortune in salary?...


.. a perfect job. We all should be "civil servants":)


You're confusing the results with the cause.
:)

Civil worker, as in the lady who takes care of homeless, lectures alcoholics, deals with dugaddicts, and wipes the bellybutton for the low income old lady who can no longer care of herself.

LoneStarBuckeye
"There are, however, other, more important rewards than money. Just ask any teacher who really loves his job."

Yeah, right. Money is not a problem until you don't have it.
Ask a teacher couple trying to raise a family of 3 kids on their salaries about their "work" satisfaction.
Idealism is nice until you have to live it.


Eagler
"Just seems to me that when the liberal politicans are speaking to a group of their voters about repealing Bushs tax changes - how it is ruining the country and is the cause of the recession  , the room looks like its full of a bunch of democrats which are in the lower 50% paying 5% of the total tax burden to start with ... "

I'm a liberal, I guess you could say, and I'm about 10k/year away from being in 5% of the top tax bracket, hince supporting everyone else.  Any other stereotypes you can offer ?

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2002, 08:15:28 AM »
fd ski
do you feel the Bush tax reduction is a good thing for the country or do you think you should pay higher taxes?
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Offline fd ski

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« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2002, 08:52:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
fd ski
do you feel the Bush tax reduction is a good thing for the country or do you think you should pay higher taxes?


Well, 600$ didn't make a damn bit of differance, as far as I care.

And policy of running debt is against my personal beliefs :) Aka, if you have debt, you should try to live within your means -> income => expences.
This is a sound policy that every good republican will advocate, yet we don't want it in our government :)

Btw, from news yesterday it looks like spending is about to go though the roof again. I have a feeling that 600$ will be going back to government soon enough.

Overall, I paid something like 20% of my income in federal taxes. I'd gladly pay 30% if that would provide me with a guaranteed safety net, if I was to be hit by a bus and paralized tomorrow.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2002, 09:08:59 AM »
Quote
ski: "I'd gladly pay 30% if that would provide me with a guaranteed safety net, if I was to be hit by a bus and paralized tomorrow."


I'd speculate that the amount of money in that 10% increase per year would buy you an excellent "safety net" insurance policy (ie: long term care policy.. I think that's what you're talking about)  out in the marketplace. Would you rather select your own and make a choice or have the government do you choosing for you? Just curious.
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Offline fd ski

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« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2002, 09:24:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad


I'd speculate that the amount of money in that 10% increase per year would buy you an excellent "safety net" insurance policy (ie: long term care policy.. I think that's what you're talking about)  out in the marketplace. Would you rather select your own and make a choice or have the government do you choosing for you? Just curious.


I would first have to have enough money for a lawyer who would have to force them to pay my policy :)

If you don't trust government, how can you trust a company ?