What kind of world do we live in....

[Hangtime]

Sorry.. while I'm incensed over arafats idiotic rhetoric and the actions of hammas, hezbollah and al-fatah, I don't think israel is without blame in this situation.

For every freakin idiotic suicide bomber there's 100,000 palestians that don't strap on the gelinite dildo before they go to work. THOSE folks are the ones that are gettin their houses mowed down.

While isreal has been hard pressed to contain terrorism against it's citizens, it's obvious to anyone who cares to look that their nation is not about to be invaded by palestinian tanks, their parliment has not been outlawed and arrested, and their homes are not being systematicly destroyed.

It looks to me like the state of israel is overeacting.

[Nefarious]

Originally posted by Staga


btw when are we going to  see pics from that march military jews did in Israel and shouted "Death to all arabs"?

Good point Staga.

Saying that one country is causing all this violence is kinda like the old expression. "The pot calling the kettle black". It's plain to see that both countries are comitting acts of violence towards each other. Apparently some people actually believe that Israel has no blame for the situation in the Middle East. That is what makes me mad. Wake UP! They are both at war. Both are killing people.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Udie




daddy straps a bomb to his daughter's waist and she sits there holding up the "peace" sign with her fingers.  How ironic is that?  I have to ask the question,  if he's so worried about his countrymen why doesn't he get off his coward hypocrite arse and go over there and fight for them?

IMO she is doing the V for victory sign ... nothing related to peace

[straffo]

Originally posted by Cabby44
Quote:

"Just one example: Here in Germany to critisize Israel and their political crimes have been a long time a taboo. "

And i'd suggest Germany keep it a "taboo". ...

In any case, no Jew ANYWHERE gives a flying-f**k what Germany's opinion is of the situation in the Middle East, comprende Comrade??

Cabby

go away idiot

[babek-]

Originally posted by Cabby44
Quote:

"Just one example: Here in Germany to critisize Israel and their political crimes have been a long time a taboo. "

And i'd suggest Germany keep it a "taboo". ...

In any case, no Jew ANYWHERE gives a flying-f**k what Germany's opinion is of the situation in the Middle East, comprende Comrade??

Cabby

Its absolutely not important what they think about germans.

The important thing for Germany is, that after decades of a blind policy according Israel, the german public point of view about Israel has now changed in an extreme short time.

So Sharon was able to destroy an ivory tower which was built during decades in few months.

And that is - for me as a german - the important thing of the whole developments.
Now - after this dam has broken - there are many open discussions in public but also in private or on the work toward this topic. The people now get the informations they never got before.
Last week one of my patients who is a teacher on high school, told me, that he had brought the israeli suppression policy as topic for his school classes. This also wouldnt have been possible in a german school before.

To make it clear: There is no hate for the israelians as a collective but a clear disdain for Sharons stupid policy.
There is also no blind support for all palestinians - every normal german as every normal human disdains not only the israeli crimes but als the ones done by palestinians.

But now both sides are now seen in a way it hasnt been before. And because of the actual power coinstellation Israel is seen as the aggressor - so the hope of the Central-Council of Jews in Germany that many Germans would join their contructed pro-Israel-demonstration in Frankfurt resulted in a desaster when only 2000 came.

This all have not been possible in this dimension before Sharon.

So - from a special point of view - the war-criminal Sharon had really helped Germany to make some very good changes in its inner structure.

[~Caligula~]

That`s all nice babek,but tell me what germany has done to save the israely citizens from getting blown up by terrorist palestinians?
Sold some weapons?I`m sure they got paid very well for those weapons.BTW I belive german scientists were building Saddam`s big secret underground guns too.
I don`t dislike german people,I don`t belive they are bad now,based on what germans did a few decades ago.I just think they`re not in the position to judge Israel for whatever they do.Especially not for things that havent even been proven yet (Jenin massacre).

We (jews) just can`t wait for others to come save us.The world just looked away when the holocaust was happening,because nobody tought something such horrible was possible.Than when the camps were found all were shocked,but that did not raise the 6 million from the dead.
Now Israel has to do something that`s not pretty by any means,and the world bashes on Israel.Fine,we don`t need anyone`s approval,we want to live and have our own country,the jewish state where jews can live their ordinary lives.Just like the french in France,the poles in Poland etc.
Palestinians could have lived there on a way higher standard of living,had they accepted the state of Israel.They wouldn`t,and they caused so much death and suffering,they had to be beat down.It`s not a nice setuation and it`s very disappointing,but that was the only way to deal with this problem.

So unless You come up with an idea on how to solve this problem in a peaceful way.....just STFU

[LtHans]

Caligula, don't worry about the Germans.  They have a new scape goat for their troubles....Turks!  Seems they have an imigrant problem like the USA has with illegal Mexicans.

They still don't trust their own military much either.

As for the God-guns that were being built in Iraq, that was a Canadian engineer named John Bull with a big gun fetish, working with a company in the Netherlands or Belgium.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by ~Caligula~
That`s all nice babek,but tell me what germany has done to save the israely citizens from getting blown up by terrorist palestinians?
Sold some weapons?I`m sure they got paid very well for those weapons.BTW

The biggest arms dealer in the middle east is the United States

I belive german scientists were building Saddam`s big secret underground guns too.

In April 1990, Saddam Hussein, then still George Bush's friend and ally, offered to destroy his chemical and biological weapons if Israel agreed to destroy its non-conventional weapons -- including its nuclear weapons. Noam Chomsky
- The Gulf War Crisis, Z Magazine 1991

I don`t dislike german people,I don`t belive they are bad now,based on what germans did a few decades ago.I just think they`re not in the position to judge Israel for whatever they do.Especially not for things that havent even been pr oven yet (Jenin massacre).

Like they couldn't originally prove the massacres in the Balkans, or the camps in Germany?

We (jews) just can`t wait for others to come save us.The world just looked away when the holocaust was happening,because nobody tought something such horrible was possible.Than when the camps were found all were shocked,but that did not raise the 6 million from the dead.
Now Israel has to do something that`s not pretty by any means,and the world bashes on Israel.Fine,we don`t need anyone`s approval,we want to live and have our own country,the jewish state where jews can live their ordinary lives.Just like the french in France,the poles in Poland etc.

Just a wee bit of living room, space to breed...lebensraum I think it was once called?
Or even better where palenstinians can not live in a place (pre '47) called Palestine

Palestinians could have lived there on a way higher standard of living,had they accepted the state of Israel.They wouldn`t,and they caused so much death and suffering,they had to be beat down.It`s not a nice setuation and it`s very disappointing,but that was the only way to deal with this problem.

Just like how that terrorist Nelson Mandela just wouldn't accept South African hospitality...just before they put him in jail for 30yrs

So unless You come up with an idea on how to solve this problem in a peaceful way.....just STFU

The best way to protect Israelis from terror attacks is to withdraw their 200,000 illegal settlers and end their colonial rule over the West Bank, Gaza and Golan; divide East Jerusalem into Jewish, Muslim, and Christian sectors, have NATO troops police peace accords and either normalize relations with the Arabs, as the Saudis propose, or build a wall to isolate Israel from its neighbours. This cannot be done so long as settlements remain.

Eric Margolis - The Toronto Sun http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/margolis_apr14.html  

 


 Tronsky

[babek-]

Hi Tronsky.

100%agree

[Staga]

yep

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by -tronski-


The best way to protect Israelis from terror attacks is to withdraw their 200,000 illegal settlers and end their colonial rule over the West Bank, Gaza and Golan; divide East Jerusalem into Jewish, Muslim, and Christian sectors, have NATO troops police peace accords and either normalize relations with the Arabs, as the Saudis propose, or build a wall to isolate Israel from its neighbours. This cannot be done so long as settlements remain.

 Tronsky

Hehehehe

Great ideas pal. I'm sure the Israelis wont have any problems at all with those LOL.

A couple of observations:

1. You really shouldnt quote Noam Chomsky and be expect to be taken serious after that.

2. A Christian sector of Jerusalem? Why? Seriously, last time I checked, the Christians were content with having a Jerusalem under jewish control.

3. Trust me, it is quite possible to build walls to protect Israel from the terrorists. You are just imagining it the wrong way. Instead of building walls around Israel proper and the Israeli settlements (something that cannot really be done, considering how many settlements there are), you simply build the walls around all the various Palestinian towns and cities.

[~Caligula~]

In April 1990, Saddam Hussein, then still George Bush's friend and ally, offered to destroy his chemical and biological weapons if Israel agreed to destroy its non-conventional weapons -- including its nuclear weapons.

Have You seen Israel using those weapons?
Do You think Saddam would use them right after he got he`s dirty hands on `em?
If it wasn`t for those nukes,Israel would have been wiped out long time ago.It makes the arabs think twice,before they do something really dumb.

The best way to protect Israelis from terror attacks is to withdraw their 200,000 illegal settlers and end their colonial rule over the West Bank, Gaza and Golan.

Remember 1948 and 1967?
There were no settlers,Israel still was attacked by virtually all the arab countries.What makes You so sure they won`t start a war after all these land is given back?

; normalize relations with the Arabs

It`s the arabs who refuse to accept right for Israel to exist.
What is the guarantee they won`t turn right around and attack again,as new Israeli borders are lot harder to defend.
Saudis right now are collecting money for the families of scuicide bombers,and write in their newspapers about the muslim blood,jews need for passover.
I`m sorry,I have a hard time trusting these people.

or build a wall to isolate Israel from its neighbours

I tought we lived in the 21st century,when walls are rather easy to destroy and  cross.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Hortlund


Hehehehe

Great ideas pal. I'm sure the Israelis wont have any problems at all with those LOL.

A couple of observations:

1. You really shouldnt quote Noam Chomsky and be expect to be taken serious after that.

2. A Christian sector of Jerusalem? Why? Seriously, last time I checked, the Christians were content with having a Jerusalem under jewish control.

3. Trust me, it is quite possible to build walls to protect Israel from the terrorists. You are just imagining it the wrong way. Instead of building walls around Israel proper and the Israeli settlements (something that cannot really be done, considering how many settlements there are), you simply build the walls around all the various Palestinian towns and cities.

Actually they werent my ideas, hence the direct quote, But quite frankly your right I'm dreaming. No one has an interest in peace, they all want victory.

As for the christian sector of Jeusalem, I don' think thats such a bad idea..at the very least it gives an alternative to the Jewish, and Arabic sectors. Plus it allows Jerusalem to be an international city and possibly free of dispute.

As for the walls, the suggestion included removing whole the settlements, but the suggestion was 2 fold. That the UN have a buffer between Isreal and Palestine + normalising relations with the Arabs, and walls the alternative.  Again all based on the removal of the settlements.

As for Naom Chomsky, yes it can be a little dubious at times, but the alternative to note that the post Iran-Iraq war investment of Iraq was with American and western European money, and arms. Just an exscuse for Caligua to claim anti-semite/ anti-american bashing...a good side step in anycase
Tronsky

[-tronski-]

Have You seen Israel using those weapons?
Do You think Saddam would use them right after he got he`s dirty hands on `em?
If it wasn`t for those nukes,Israel would have been wiped out long time ago.It makes the arabs think twice,before they do something really dumb.

No thankfully, but they manage to use their conventional weapons quite often enough.
Having a nuclear bomb doesn't make you naturally responsible to have it. Pakistan and India make that obvious.

Remember 1948 and 1967?
There were no settlers,Israel still was attacked by virtually all the arab countries.What makes You so sure they won`t start a war after all these land is given back?

I rememeber 1978 and 1982 when Isreal had control of the occupied territories, and still mananged to find time to invade Lebanon.

It`s the arabs who refuse to accept right for Israel to exist.
What is the guarantee they won`t turn right around and attack again,as new Israeli borders are lot harder to defend.
Saudis right now are collecting money for the families of scuicide bombers,and write in their newspapers about the muslim blood,jews need for passover.
I`m sorry,I have a hard time trusting these people.

Egypt was part of the Arab colalition that was involved in '67/'73 yet still managed to have diplomatic relations with Isreal in 1980.
As for Saudi money, Isreal recieves 10% of her budget from the US, but the Palestinians are automatically supposed to trust either?

I tought we lived in the 21st century,when walls are rather easy to destroy and cross.

I thought we lived in the 21st century  too, but Isreal and Palestine continually prove me wrong.

I think you'll find that's sarcasm. Isreal has to normalise realtions with it's Arab neighbours or it may as well lock it's self away.

you asked for a peaceful solution, I posted one. But as Hortlund posted, thats a dream, and I tend to agree with him.

Tronsky

[~Caligula~]

As for Naom Chomsky, yes it can be a little dubious at times, but the alternative to note that the post Iran-Iraq war investment of Iraq was with American and western European money, and arms. Just an exscuse for Caligua to claim anti-semite/ anti-american bashing...a good side step in anycase

No thankfully, but they manage to use their conventional weapons quite often enough.
Having a nuclear bomb doesn't make you naturally responsible to have it. Pakistan and India make that obvious.

Egypt was part of the Arab colalition that was involved in '67/'73 yet still managed to have diplomatic relations with Isreal in 1980.
As for Saudi money, Isreal recieves 10% of her budget from the US, but the Palestinians are automatically supposed to trust either?  

What the F are you talking about?
Israel not responsible?No nukes ever used by Israel,and non of the NATO or the former Warsaw pact countries ever made a big deal out of it.So I guess all understood what Israel needs those nukes for,and didn`t worry about Israel being irresponsible with them.
Now if You think You`re smarter than all those leaders and governments of those countries,You might need some medication.

Actually the 1st and 3rd quotes I posted because I have absolutelly no idea what You`re trying to say.