Author Topic: What kind of world do we live in....  (Read 1036 times)

Offline Elfenwolf

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What kind of world do we live in....
« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2002, 10:48:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mietla


wouldn't this (teaching kids to pretend to be suicide bombers) be considered a child abuse in the US?

They CPS take the kids from their parent for much less drastic offences.

Are other countries (Germany in this case) less intrusive into the family and raising your own kids?


Nah, Mielta, because if you make the case for child abuse because he's using his daughter as a symbol then it opens the door to claims of child abuse by every parent who buys a little flag and has their kid wave it at the 4th of July parade.

Calls for the ban on demonstrations are laughable also. Is it a demonstration to fly an American flag from your car antenna?

What's amazing is the "righteous indignation" shown by the author of this thread and several of the respondant posts. What do you expect the Palestinians to do? They are in a war, they will demonstrate nationalist sentiment and they will protest to draw attention to their cause. As far as using babies as hand grenades, as some posters claim to be occuring, I haven't read any proof of children being suicide bombers, so please post a link.


Oh, forgot bout the CPS part- You have to be extremely abusive to a child, to the point of being a threat to the life of the child, before CPS can intervine and take away a child. The Social Services budget for CPS and most other similar programs isn't nearly enough to allow CPS to effectively do their jobs. We have no end of unfit parents who are on drugs, alcohol or whatever who shouldn't even be on the streets, let alone being parents. Now how many of you staunch Conservatives are in favor of an increase in Social Services spending?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2002, 10:53:53 AM by Elfenwolf »

Offline Ripsnort

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What kind of world do we live in....
« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2002, 11:16:34 AM »
Elf, don't pay much attention to the news I see...just two weeks ago, a young boy lured 9 Israeli soldiers into an ally (they chased him) and then detonated an explosive that killed 6 outright, while the remaining were ambushed from rooftops.  Anyway, since you're so uninformed and probably get your main source of news from CNN for 20 min. a day, here you go:

                             
Quote
"The Martyr Wajdi Al-Hattab (9th grade) responded to the call of Allah and
                              achieved the Martyrdom that he yearned for, so that it would clear the way for
                              the liberation of Al Aksa and Palestine from the defilement of the occupation.
                              He would always say to his friends: 'When I become a Martyr, give out
                              Kannafa [sweet cake]. He always spoke about his uncle who became a
                              Martyr in southern Lebanon, and yearned to become a Martyr like him - and
                              [now] he attained what he yearned for. He reached the highest levels with
                              Allah... [Wajdi's gym teacher relates:] Wajdi asked me to give out Kannafa if
                              he becomes a Martyr... His classmates swore that they would continue in the
                              path of Martyrdom until the liberation of Jerusalem..."
                                                                [Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 9 November 2000]

                              "The danger of injury of the boy Saber Al-Ashkar (aged 18), paralysis and
                              permanent disability, just added to his mother's determination to encourage
                              her sons to participate in the Intifada riots.... and the fact of his injury by a live
                              bullet did not cause her to mourn... She said that she had [previously] lost her
                              older son Iyad, and described him as the first flower that appeared in her life.
                              She is not interested in anything but encouraging her sons to self-sacrifice
                              and Martyrdom for the land of Palestine..."
                                                                        [Al Ayyam 1 November 2000]

                              "A PATV broadcast conducted conversations with 2nd grade school children.
                              An interviewer spoke with a child who had thrown stones [in the riots]:
                              Interviewer: "You threw stones at the army and injured your leg. Will you
                              throw again?"
                              Child: "Yes".
                              Interviewer: "You aren't afraid to die?"
                              Child: [embarrassed, hesitant]
                              Interviewer: [indicates "No" to the child by shaking her head in the negative]
                              Child: "No."
                                                                                 [PATV 19/10/00]

                              [Headline]: "The Boy Martyr Karam Al-Kard [age 12] announced of his own
                              death on the walls of his home" [article text] "Prior to his being injured...
                              Karam announced his own death on the walls of his home and attributed to
                              himself Martyrdom and its honor, in his handwriting on the walls. The notice
                              read: 'The Al-Kard family announces the death of its courageous Martyr
                              Karam Fat'he Al-Kard..."
                                                                [Al Hayat Al Jadida, 30 November 2000]

                              "The Martyr Wajdi [aged 14, said] to his father: 'I will bring you a Shahada
                              (Martyrdom) that you will be proud of for the rest of your life'. His mother says:
                              'My son is not my son only, he belongs to his noble Palestinian people... One
                              of his friends said that the last words of the Martyr, that he repeated over and
                              over, spoke of the significance of Martyrdom and on becoming a Martyr."
                                                                [Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 8 November 2000]

                              "[He] sacrificed his son (aged 18) in order to redeem the homeland and
                              Jerusalem. He stated that becoming a Martyr is a tremendous source of pride
                              and a medal on his chest... he added that his son always spoke about
                              martyrdom and his desire to become a Martyr."
                                                                    [Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 9 Nov. 2000]

                              The Martyr Muhammad Abu Tahoun wrote down his final words on his
                              notebook: 'The Martyrs will attain Paradise, and I will be with them, Allah
                              willing...'".
                                                                [Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 9 November 2000]

                              "The father [of Mohammed Hiza' Halas, 23]: ... [He has] great pride that his
                              progeny has become a Martyr .... With regard to his mother, she says that
                              her offspring wished to become a Martyr and she anticipated it."
                                                                [Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 2 November 2000]

                              "Our blood is a sign of our fighting for our precious Palestine"
                                          [A teacher, next to pupils on Palestinian Television, 2 November 2000]

                              "What pushes our children and youth to the arenas of death?... [Ramadan
                              Saadi Abd Rabbo, an injured 13-year-old, said:] 'my goal is not to be injured,
                              but rather something higher: Martyrdom.'"
                                                                [Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 8 November 2000]

                              "The wounded 11-year-old, Amr Qarut, wants to win the honor of a Martyr's
                              death... and he insists on continuing the [violent] struggle."
                                                                [Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 6 November 2000]

                              "The wounded Sa'ed Awad Allah [aged 11], from the Jaballiya [refugee] camp
                              said: We are all potential Martyrs for Jerusalem and the Homeland"
                                                                [Al Hayat - Al Jadida, 6 November 2000]

                              "We must battle until we achieve peace on our own and until our blood will
                              not be spilled for naught, we must battle and die in order to attain all that we
                              want." [8-year-old girl Halah Badir]
                                                                       [Al Ayyam, 2 November 2000]

                              "[22-year-old Tauzem Musa Abu Def's] brother... feels honor and pride from
                              his brother's becoming a Martyr, ...and added that he intends to continue on
                              the path started by his brother."
                                                                       [Al Ayyam, 2 November 2000]

                              " I will take my soul in my hand and toss it into the abyss of death. And then
                              either life that will gladden friends or death that will anger the enemy. The
                              honorable soul has two objectives: Achieving death and honor." 'Song of the
                              Martyr' recited by schoolgirls. (the poem appears in 5th, 6th and 12th grade
                              PA school books)
                                                                           [PATV, 27 October 2000]

                              This current promotion of Martyrdom is part of a long-term phenomenon in
                              the Palestinian society. PA television in 1998 described two mothers' joy at
                              their children's "Martyrdom" in the Intifada, as follows:

                              Narrator: "... the heroine was shot ...and her pure blood flowing and her pure
                              spirit joyously going to her creator...." Girl's Mother: "I asked: who is she that
                              died? She told me - 'it's your daughter.' I said: 'Thank Allah, thank Allah. We
                              have a right to liberate our homeland and we will liberate it. It is our honor to
                              fall ... She would say "it doesn't matter, I will die for the redemption of the
                              homeland", meaning - I want to die for the redemption of the homeland...
                              Intisar fell and it is an honor for us and an honor for our children..." Relative of
                              the family:..."Every time she heard a bang [she said] 'someone was shot, I
                              hope that next time it will be me, I want to die as a martyr'.
                                                                             [PA TV - Oct. 7, 1998]

                              Mother of Muhammad ["martyred" in the riots]: "...I hope that all my children
                              will be martyrs..."

http://www.pmw.org.il/report-32.html

Offline Elfenwolf

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What kind of world do we live in....
« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2002, 12:51:18 PM »
No doubt, suicide bombing is a terrible thing, thanks for the post as it describes just how sad it is more than any of us ever could. We could never imagine making those choices, and thank God we don't have to.

As one who believes world peace will soon be our only viable option due to the proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction I find fault with Sharon as equally as I do with Arafat. Neither one of them seems to be flexible or realistic to the interests of the other, and both seem too comfortable with the death and destruction around them to negotiate in good faith for an end to the crisis.

What concerns me most is the potential for escalation into a much bigger war, and I hope the entire global community will start exerting pressure on BOTH sides to stop all acts of aggression. God knows Arafat and Sharon won't stop the violence on their own.

Offline easymo

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What kind of world do we live in....
« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2002, 12:59:09 PM »
I am encouraged by the martyr thing, as it applies to our own war on terror.  The immediate danger is obvious, but in the long run, the cultural physicology behind the suicied attacks is doomed to failure.  is the ultimate in negative   thinking. It is totally alien to us.  Our training can be summed up by that famous quote attributed to Gen. Patton. "---make the other dumb bastard die for his country.

  Now, for example, if we had a set to with the British. I would be far more concerned. If those silly bastards were down to their last two men.  Those guys would be planning how they were going to win.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2002, 01:03:07 PM by easymo »

Offline Eagler

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What kind of world do we live in....
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2002, 02:11:26 PM »
Didn't arafat's better half just state that she wished they had a son as she could not think of a better future than he die a martyr

what a bunch of kooks

they are so dam dumb, they don't realize they have the world's attention and can work the best deal ever if they just control the nutbags or at least condemn them and give peace a chance
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Offline Staga

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What kind of world do we live in....
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2002, 04:02:15 PM »
If you push people too long there will be a point where rational way of thinking will be forgotten.

Then all you have is rage and vengeance.

Offline ~Caligula~

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What kind of world do we live in....
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2002, 09:06:19 PM »
I`m sorry Staga but I have to disaggree.
I was born and raised in Hungary.If You wanna find a country that was suppressed,used,devestated,occupied,liberated(by the russians:rolleyes: ..or whatever else You can think of.....well there you go.
But I`ve never heard of Hungarian scuicide squads,and for sure no childeren strapped with explosives.No matter how bad things were going.