Boring

[Spatula]

At the time of all the connection problems i flew my spitty down to rook land and encounterd a knight 109 that was higher than me (about 2-3k higher). So i levelled off and went to meet him. He took the HO (im used to this) then he nosed down and ran. I turned to give chase (spit not the fastest kite), he went up then turned for his feild and ran to the ack. I turned off and he came back and went for HO again (i was on phone at the point a f***d up and he got my right aileron (no biggie).
For the next 10 mins he would only ever HO, then run for ack then HO again.
I discod before anyone could finish the fight (or lack of it).
Whoever it was, im sorry, but that was the worst 109 flying ive seen in a long time.
Heck just fight, you had the advantage...

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Supreme Mega-Overlord Spatula

"...perfect for serving"
 

=357th Pony Express=

[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 04-20-2000).]

[gatt]

Your right Spatula. During last week I've seen a lot of 109 pilots going for HO and then run away for home. I find it strange indeed, usually 109 pilots were the best around, IMHO.

It was a G-10 for sure. Thats the main problem of this mix of mid-late war kites. Just tell them to give you a 1944 Spitfire MkXIV so you'll be able to gun the brain out of this kind of dweebs  

[Teapot]

Well, I'm usually a Bish ... so it wasn't me, and I don't usually fly Luftwaffe iron .. so again that counts me out ... but let's face it guys, there are many levels of expertise among the players of this game. Most of us try to survive in the virtual air, and I think it's fair to say that we ALL try to do the very BEST we can.

Spat .. I've flown against you on a quiet night and I KNOW that you (usually) fly with panache .. hehe. But don't you think it's a little unfair, and probably even a little condescending to belittle some poor guy's tactics (or lack of)?

Add to that the crutch that the 109 is a difficult plane to fly well.

Anyway, enough of my Mary Poppins act  )

Cheers
Teapot.

[Hans]

My tactics always revolve around survival.  To hell with fighting till I die.  I hate dying.  I would rather disengage than push a bad situation.

• Only attack when you have the advantage.
• Do not attempt to attack when the odds are even.
• When at a disadvantage you "win" by escaping alive.

"But, Hanz that is cheap!  Your ruining the fun of the game!"  BS.  Flying with little reguard to my virtual life and eventually getting shot down is dumb.  My goal is to never get shot down.

Hanz.

[This message has been edited by Hans (edited 04-21-2000).]

[Pongo]

Well we can all fly the way we like, but unless the 109 is heavy it is a lousy ho bird...
But 1 on 1 with a good spit pilot......discresion can be the better part of valour.


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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[Hristo]

There is one particular situation when I always go for a HO in 109. It is when someone has less E and climbs to me. I zoom up as much as I can, power off, squeeze some more zoom and then dive on him.

In case I correctly judged his E, he will stall out just at the moment I am 300-400 yards above him and then it is nice to fill them with cannon shells. Rope-a-dope, in another words. However, he will complain that I am a HO dweeb, even though he did not have a shot. And that real rope-a-dope were long climbing turns  

However, if I misjudge his E, even funnier things happen. The Spit will take HO for sure, I will die at 700 yards diving on him, and he will use the open channel to make fun of my silly flying (even though he lost a wing or two  ).

Then again, if he had less E and stall sooner, he might be able to dive and pick speed back up.

P.S.

It wasn't me there. But think about it again, Spatula. If he went HO in 109 vs Spit, how come he survived ? Did you have a shot there ?

[CavemanJ]

Spat probably had a shot but chose to avoid the direct HO and use ACM to saddle up
That's what I try to do  

[Nash]

I assume he lived. Mostly people rant when they are denied a kill.

If he lived - then who are you to judge his tactics? Seemed to work out for him, no?

If he died, then come on this board to post how he might improve - if you must. But man, going on about someone who didn't want to fight your particular fight is a little... weak.

And I'm not buying the HO bit. "He turned back and went for the HO"... Four times? It's cliche, I know, but... it takes two to tango. Seems to me, if he's the one reversing, it's up to YOU and only you to decide if the merge is going to be a head-on or not.

Heh, I'm ranting here myself... but this is the same kinda talk I hear on the channel, and it gets real old real fast.

You were trying to kill him, ya couldn't do it... so give him a hearty <S> and move on.

[Citabria]

going vertical against a spitfire is always a bad move unless you know what they got for E.

I have had spitfires that looked slow crawl up to me and sit there on their tails blazing away as i come down to shoot them and somtimes before.

I guess this has to do with the P-38 wieghing around 17,000 lbs and the spit wieghing 7,000 lbs? heh

I still wouldnt be caught dead or alive in a spitfire  

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"There are no born fighter pilots. Some are a little better than others, thats about it. But I would say time, training, training, training and more training are the key... to any success."  -Francis Gabreski

Citabria
=357th Pony Express=

[Swager]

It wasn't me, but I wish it was! Actually you type: "Worst 109 flying I seen in a long time"

Hey!  Maybe it was me!  

Gota try that tactic next time!    

Gota remember this:  Go for HO, and then extend.  If possible, try to get over own ack to give myself the advantage, and then merge again.

Yea!  Gota try that!!

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Swager
I/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
 
JG2 "Richthofen"

[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 04-21-2000).]

[Vermillion]

Ok, time for a dissenting opinon.

Spatula if you turned away from him after the first time, and he came back for another pass, how was it a HO? Unless you turned back into him?

Guys, that is not an HO. It is the Spitfire pilot that is forcing the front quarter shot.

A BnZ plane has no other choice but to take that kind of shot if you continually turn your nose into him (typical Spitfire tactic #1).

Even if he has E on you, in this case you can still turn much better than him, and its completely unrealistic to expect him to try to saddle up on your six to take every shot.

I would have flown it exactly the same way, and in my opinon shows alot of discipline.

 

Heck just fight,

He was...   On his terms. Smart Pilot.

If you want a fast plane fly a fast plane, if you want a turner fly a turner. But don't expect a G10 or a P51 to turnfight Spitfires, even when they have E.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Ghosth]

Ya Know I see a lot of talk about HO's both here & on open channel.  What amazes me is how many people who have the alt don't use it. Instead they turn & head straight for the other guy. Now that's forceing a HO in my book.

The other guy has fewer options because of his lack of alt & speed.  Most times in this game if someone gets on your 6 thats it, it's all over.

So how can you blame the guy below for turning into the fight? Its likely the only real option to win he has left.

The plane on top has ALL the options! If he's smart he'll circle for a rear quarter solution instead of just diveing at the con.

Next time your flying take a good look at what YOU could do differently if you don't like HO's!

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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels
 

[This message has been edited by Ghosth (edited 04-21-2000).]

[gatt]

I think that in a way or in another you are all right.

Yes, turning into the fight was the first thing to do in RL. But I dont think that so many real pilots died during HO's. I think that too much AH pilots die in HO, much more here than in WB. Would be interesting to understand why (maybe the gunnery model or the late-war dogfight style).
 
Thing is, the HO has something wrong in itself. Seldom the worst pilot dies. And add that silly thing of the HO winner that falls down in flames without wings ....

[Vermillion]

 

The other guy has fewer options because of his lack of alt & speed. Most times in this game if someone gets on your 6 thats it, it's all over.

So how can you blame the guy below for turning into the fight? Its likely the only real option to win he has left.

No I expect him to try to turn into me as I bounce him, but he better not expect me to just give up the shot, and then proceed to turnfight him.

A properly flown Spitfire in a 1 v 1 situation can turn his nose into you till he runs out of fuel.

My point is that in this case both pilots did what they should.

It may be boring for one of them, but hey thats the breaks. Each was flying his own style, and using the strengths of his aircraft.

I just find it funny   When turnfighter pilots get mad when pilots that fly planes like the G10 or Pony won't  "Come back and fight!!".

For me there is nothing more fun than engaging a Spitfire, getting the pilot all excited and then dragging him all over the arena. Managing my speed so that he never quite catches me, but keep the "hook" firmly set. Then watching as he realizes that he is about to run outta fuel, turns back then I bounce him. Its so much fun  



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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[onyer6]

Who speaks for the ack..

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WW2 veteran combat pilots, in a recent poll, preferred a reset button to realistic flight mode.