ForceFX - Will AH have it & opinions on it?

[Westy]

 I just found out that CH has discontinued thier CH ForceFX joystick. One reason being that the drivers are laggin behind DX and also MS under cut thier market with volume,
ditribution and price with thier stick. Perhaps I-Force was inferior too. I do no know. Howevewr I can still get a brand new stick but I am not sure I want to if Aces High or future sims will not be implenting ForceFX into thier sims.  A search on this web board showed me that previous questions on ForceFX being implemented were not answered. I am sure that was due to the workload the HiTech Creation folks have on thier plate. Still. I wish they could take a moment and reply here. (please   )

 And a question for you ForceFX users? Is it worth it? It's not a furtune at $85 US but it is a waste of money if it will be a white elephant soo or does not add anything to the flight experience. Does the ForceFX feature add immersion or is it a gimmick that just feels odd?  Does it really help you in performing your ACM? Do you "ride the edge" better having the feedback from the stick versus the stall buzzer sound for example?

 I'd appreciate all imput. Thanks!

-Westy

p.s.  If you do have the CH FX here is a web link http://www.zeb.clara.net/jstick.html  that has directions on how to make the FX's 4-way hat a real 8-way hat. Three online friends of mine HAVE done this and it works. You end up having an 8-way hat just like my CH F16 Fighterstick does.


-Westy
 


[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 01-27-2000).]

[dolomite]

I drag my Logitech FF out, try it, and put it back in the box over-and-over. The trouble with FF IMHO is that is places restrictions upon you that your enemy won't have.

Does it help you feel the edge of a stall? Yes. Will you feel buffet? Yes. Will it spoil your shot? Yes. Will your enemy buffet and lose shot? No. And it will become obvious after a while you are handicapping yourself.

It depends on why you play. If you want to feel like you're in a plane, FF helps. If you want to be competitive, FF hurts.

[This message has been edited by dolomite (edited 01-27-2000).]

[-Catman-]

Dolomite has a point here.  I have only played AH with my new MS Force Feedback Pro.  I have  a CH F16 flight stick also and I will hook it up to see if I'm truly at a disadvantage.

Force feedback gives a great feel(when implemented correctly and I don't feel AH is setup to use feedback correctly) but I never thought about it being a disadvantage.

Catman

[Westy]

 Thanks guys. I appreciate the replies.
 I think someone from HTC might not want to reply for whatever reason and that's ok.
 I think I'll just get it. If I don't like it I'm sure I can trade it away for something else in the future....
 Or use it on the older sims which I fly offline for kicks every now and then when the net is coughing up a hairball.

 -Westy

[hitech]

Westy, Im planing on implementing FF is just low on the list.

HiTech

[TT]

 HT. Im in the same boat as dolo. Please install a way to disable it in the game if possible.

 we need a notch of it in windows, to center the stick. but some ppl dont want it in the game.

[This message has been edited by TT (edited 01-28-2000).]

[minus]

ole the greatest times what i have vith WB when the 1.99 ver used the I-force  system for FF
i use only CH stufs, after the change to DX 5
it got bad, the CH stick exceled in I -force
 it realy lett you fell the plane the MS FF
is great to DX 5FF but is arkadis not real felling  

[tshred]

Don't get it! I have one and fly with it and like it a lot, but ever since HT and Co. fixed the joystick button recognition stuff with the 2cd or 3rd beta release, I suffer form the dreaded CH ForceFeedback driver lock up. Every hour and 20 minutes into the fight, I lock up with out fail and have to manually reboot the 'puter. MarkAT(we both use Pro Trottle also) also uses it but somehow he gets his stick to work with the CH F16 Combatstick drivers, but for some reason I can't get those or any other drivers to recognize the trigger button! So I suffer and reboot because I like the feel of it very much.

As far as force feedback goes, I think it helps tremendously, unlike dolomite. When I was using it in Dawn of Aces(locks up there also, but usually lasts closer to 2 hrs)I helped me manage my E better, cause I used to have a tendency to overcontrol and pull to many g's. I've since dropped IEN all together, and have been using it without forces in AH and the 'training' it gave me in DoA helped me mentally and I don't have that tendency to overcontrol anymore, but I still want the forces back. I like the full realism concept and am not worried as much about my overall performance and kill stats to use that as a reason not to use force feedback. I personally see it as more of a challenge using it, and it also feels weird to me not having it, as I fly real airplanes(nothing with fly by wire of course). What bothers me the most about all the controllers on the market today is that they are so small and don't take much 'throw' to initiate control input. WWII a/c all had sticks with some lenth to them, and you moved the control farther than we do with our sticks. Our controllers more closely resemble the fly by wire cockpits of today's fighters!

If you have problems managing E, Force Feedback may help you, it's all a matter of personal preference, but whatever you do, don't get the CH unless you don't mind the occasional disco due to lock up in the heat of battle!

Oh, and thanks for the link, I've been wanting to turn my 4way hat into and 8way but haven't taken the time to figure it out, now I don't have to!

ts

PS Any of your online freinds fly ACES with their CH FX? If so, do they experience lock ups? It could be my hardware combo that is the cause, and I'd like to figure out how to make it go away <BG>.

[hitech]

tshred are you running a tnt2? If so turn your agp support off in your direct x setup. I had the same problem with the tnt2's and i fairly sure its a heat related problem with them.

HiTech

[Westy]

 HiTech thank you for answering!
 I'd added that "..and that's ok" to my 2nd post because I did not want to sound negative
or whiiny in an attempt to garner a reply.
 I know there are more pressing issues to deal with.
 TS and all thank you for replying! And TS, if I find out how to work the drivers I'll definately let you know.

 -Westy
 

[tshred]

No HT, I'm running Voodoo 3 3000, but it is agp. And I have it o/c'd. I always have case off computer. I run my celery o/c to 458, but turning off the o/c of CPU and video card makes no differnce and heat has never been a problem for me, temps always low. Have tried everthing I can think of. Anyway, here are my system spec's:

366 celery o/c 458
128 PC100 Cas 2 sdram(mushkin)
Abit BX6 r2.0
Voodoo 3 3000 agp
Win 98
DX 6

Can't find any reference to AGP in my directx utilities. Think I'll go check out upgrading DirectX.


PS, I just noticed my FX switch on bottom was set on A! Should be on B with Pro Throttle, maybe I can get Combat Stick drivers working, gonna try, only problem with them is they are more 'spiky' than FX drivers.

ts

[This message has been edited by tshred (edited 01-28-2000).]

[Dancer]

tshred,

over at the iEN boards there was a discussion
about the lock-up problem with CH FFX sticks.

I think it came down to the point that it's
related to the com-ports. I.e, if you are
using a com-port for your modem, you'll
get lock-ups, if you use a network card,
you'll be fine.

I never experienced lock-ups in WB or AH
(granted I don't fly both anymore due to the
lack of time) and I use a network card to
connect to my router PC.

Dancer out.

[hblair]

I am running an MS FF stick and do not feel a disadantage whatsoever. As a matter of fact I think the stick warning you of a black/redout is actually an advantage. I haven't played Aces High enough to fine tune my gunnery, but back when I played WB's a lot I had .18 gunnery, that was an average over about 800 - 900 sorties, not too bad by any standard.

If you are used to a conventional stick then a FF stick will take a long time to feel right.

[tshred]

Thx Dancer, never saw that mentioned before. Time to set up a home network  ?

ts