Author Topic: @#$&*^ friendly fire (Read 1049 times)

Nash · « **Reply #15 on:** April 18, 2002, 12:29:25 PM »

Uhm..... everywhere?

Pongo · « **Reply #16 on:** April 18, 2002, 12:34:08 PM »

The names of the PPCLIs killed by friendly fire (US F16 250lber) have been released...
Sgt. Marc Leger
Cpl. Ainsworth Dyer
Pte. Richard Green
Pte. Nathan Smith
injured...
Sgt. Lorne Ford
Cpl. René Paquet
Master Cpl. Curtis Holister
Cpl. Brett Parry
Pte. Norman Link
Cpl. Shane Brennan
Master Cpl. Stanley Clark
Cpl. Brian DeCare

Salute Pongos.

Tac · « **Reply #17 on:** April 18, 2002, 12:35:45 PM »

Condolences canucks

From WW2:

"When the Germans fire the English duck.

When the English fire the Germans duck.

When the Americans fire everybody ducks."

Creamo · « **Reply #18 on:** April 18, 2002, 01:04:06 PM »

At least your N1K2 whines will seem pale, finally.

Sikboy · « **Reply #19 on:** April 18, 2002, 01:17:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nash
Uhm..... everywhere?

DOH! This morning when I first heard the news there no details... I figured you had a "scoop" lol.

-Sikboy

Toad · « **Reply #20 on:** April 18, 2002, 01:18:22 PM »

Nash, let me first again offer my condolences to the families of the victims and all Canadians.

I'd still like to know, however, who was aiming the laser designator.

If it indeed was a laser guided bomb, it generally "takes two to tango". One entity marks the target with a laser designator and the attacking pilot lofts the bomb in to the laser "basket" where gravity and the steerable control fins take over and do the rest.

So I sort of doubt it was one "out of control F-16 jockey". I'm almost certain two different people had to be involved. What that means to me is that both people must have felt it was within their ROE to "take the shot".

Now, if it proves to be some guy taking matters into his own hands and violating the ROE, I'll stand right beside you and yell even louder that he should be "hung from the highest yardarm in the fleet".

If the ROE prove to be unworkable or stupidly written, then the guy/guys who wrote them should swing.

If it was basically an unforseen situation that went sour.. it's an accident.

All of the above not withstanding, it's still a tragedy and I mourn along with your country.

Thrawn · « **Reply #21 on:** April 18, 2002, 01:33:06 PM »

diddly.

I eagerly await the investigation into this matter.

Edit: Ya know, I tried to let this go, but I just can't. WTF is with the American military and friendly fire anyway. Cripes. It's not like this is the first time this toejam has happened. I understand friendly fire happens, but why does it always seem to be the yanks for diddly sake.

Maverick · « **Reply #22 on:** April 18, 2002, 01:36:40 PM »

It's way too early to spend much time on this. Let the folks who have the job, resources and are on the scene do the investigation. Anything posted here is just speculation, mostly from those who have never been in the service much less a combat zone. Folks just let them do their job. The investigators will do their best to find out how this tragedy happened and how to see it doesn't happen again.

Just a side note. The incidence of "friendly fire" is far less than it used to be, even in stateside training during WW2, because the incidents were investigatede and procedures set to avoid them.

Grieve for the losses but don't try to assign blame for it untill the facts are known.

Replicant · « **Reply #23 on:** April 18, 2002, 02:35:31 PM »

Yup, I heard the exact same story as Nash told, apart from that the F16 pilot was ANG.

Toad, the F16 often carries a laser designator therefore a single F16 can aquire and guide a LGB towards a target.

Friendly fire just brings back so many bad memories from all the other incidents in the past

Salute to the fallen Canadians

~~Regards~~

Sikboy · « **Reply #24 on:** April 18, 2002, 02:44:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn

WTF is with the American military and friendly fire anyway. Cripes.

If I had to guess, I'd say that dropping more bombs than most countries, while at the same time having a free and active press has a lot to do with the appearence of an above average incidence of Friendly Fire Casualties. I'd be interested to know how many times the Russians have accidentally dropped on their own positions in Chechnya for example. This is just a guess of course.

-Sikboy

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #25 on:** April 18, 2002, 02:46:42 PM »

Condolences to those lost in this accident.

And to those taking this opportunity to pass judgement on those involved... piss off. You don't know what happened. You don't know the circumstances. You are going off of rumors an assumptions.

AKDejaVu

Thrawn · « **Reply #26 on:** April 18, 2002, 03:16:28 PM »

Okay this is what we KNOW.

The canadians were in a DESIGNATED AND RECOGNISED training area.

Two F-16's flew over the area on routine patrol.

The pilot, a reservist in the National Guard, contacted his air controller on the ground and reported that he was taking fire from the enemy. The pilot was then given permission to mark a target and to turn around to get a second look.

The pilot circled back over the area and saw more muzzle flashes, the officials said. He asked if he could drop his bomb, but was denied permission unless he felt he was acting in self-defence.

The pilot then invoked his right of self-defence and dropped one laser-guided 250-kg bomb on the target, the Pentagon officials said.

PS. These "rumours and assumptions"(most people prefer to use the proper term "facts", all come to me from the DND and from the Pentagon, via the CBC, the BBC and CNN.

Thrawn · « **Reply #27 on:** April 18, 2002, 03:35:25 PM »

Crap. Look...thanks sharing your condolances.

I sincerly offer mine to the friends and families, of those killed and wounded in this horrible incident and to the PPCLI.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #28 on:** April 18, 2002, 04:02:04 PM »

Thrawn... you need to calm down and stop taking this so personally. While you're at it.. please stop acting like judge jury and executioner. You're not helping anything at all right now.

And for whomever issued the comment in regards to Americans and FF... With training comes accidents. With deployment comes accidents. With combat comes accidents. Ask yourself how this happens with Americans more than others one more time... only this time... try to actually answer it. I do recall a Danish plane opening fire on an observation tower at a gunnery range... the next day an American plane hit an observation tower at a range with a bomb. The only difference was that one pilot missed and the other didn't. Of course... its an all about Americans always FFing.

AKDejaVu

Udie · « **Reply #29 on:** April 18, 2002, 04:03:11 PM »

This has had me bummed out all day. It's one thing when we have a FF accident that kills Americans, but to kill our allies just seems worse to me.

Sorry again Canada