Author Topic: My solution for the Middle East (Read 835 times)

Curval · « **on:** April 19, 2002, 10:11:39 AM »

Been thinking about this alot, and over a conversation with a client I think we have it figured out.

The only reason that the United States and the west cares one iota about the Middle East is oil. This is the bottom line and anyone who disagrees with that statement needs their head examined.

If we are in agreement on this point..lets talk MONEY.

How much will it cost the US over the next 20 years to:

1. Fight terrorism
2. Keep Israel and the Arab nations from killing each other
3. Protect the US oil interests in the Middle East

Pick a number. Mine would be about 5-10 TRILLION dollars - conservatively.

The answer to the Middle East problem then is simple in its conception, but obviously very difficult, for a number of reasons, to put into practice.

Take the 5-10 trillion and begin a massive campaign to find and impliment an alternative to oil burning engines. Give the oil companies, the car dealers and manufacturers, the after-market parts salespeople etc, etc. MASSIVE incentives to effect this transformation.

Yes it is a huge undertaking, and yes it will fundemaentally alter all of our lives. But think about the net result. The US would no longer need oil. They could leave the desert to the Arabs and the Israelis to fight over. There would no longer be a need to send massive amounts of aid to Israel and normalised trade relations could be substituted.

I don't have time to get too long winded here...so, there it is in a nutshell.....

Discuss.

Udie · « **Reply #1 on:** April 19, 2002, 10:15:37 AM »

I think we should be doing that reguardless of what's happening in the ME. Simply put there's a finite amount of oil on this planet. The only real problem I see is that fuel is not the only use of oil. So many products we use are petrolium based. Anything from the shoes on your feet to the pen you write with to the keyboard you type with, to the plastic that wraps your lunch uses oil.

It's just not as cut and dry as I'd like it, it's a big tangled mess....

Curval · « **Reply #2 on:** April 19, 2002, 10:24:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Udie
I think we should be doing that reguardless of what's happening in the ME. Simply put there's a finite amount of oil on this planet. The only real problem I see is that fuel is not the only use of oil. So many products we use are petrolium based. Anything from the shoes on your feet to the pen you write with to the keyboard you type with, to the plastic that wraps your lunch uses oil.

It's just not as cut and dry as I'd like it, it's a big tangled mess....

Good point Udie...but I would have thought that any viable alternative to oil would address these issues too.

Nothing is cut and dry in the ME now...it is a huge tangled mess, as you say, with no way to solve it at present. At least if we follow some sort of program to change the reliance on oil (needed in any case as you point out) there is a "light at the end of the tunnel".

Eagler · « **Reply #3 on:** April 19, 2002, 10:33:35 AM »

First we should reduce our dependence on ME oil

If the democrats could get that through their thick skulls, it'd be a start ... da morons

Senate Rejects Oil Drilling in Arctic National Wildlife Refuge

Udie · « **Reply #4 on:** April 19, 2002, 10:45:05 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval

Good point Udie...but I would have thought that any viable alternative to oil would address these issues too.

Nothing is cut and dry in the ME now...it is a huge tangled mess, as you say, with no way to solve it at present. At least if we follow some sort of program to change the reliance on oil (needed in any case as you point out) there is a "light at the end of the tunnel".

Yeah I agree. I think that an alternate "fuel" sorce will probobly be in the form of hydrogen or nuclear power if they can get it clean enough. I don't know how we will totaly get off of oil for a very long time. It would be interesting to know the ratio of fuel/polymer crude oil usage, I have no clue what that is. I would think though that which ever is the greatest use is what we should be looking for and alternative of. That would decrease our dependency the most, IMO.

[edit]

Another problem may be, and this is certainly no reason to no look for alternative sources of fuel, that if we were to stop buying saudi oil the sultans may lose power. Then we'd have some sort of ultra-right-wing-religious-zealot government out to kill the great satan. Personaly I think it's coming to this anyway but stopping the flow of money to SA might hasten it. I still say do it though, screw the freakin 7th centry crazies....

midnight Target · « **Reply #5 on:** April 19, 2002, 10:45:59 AM »

Drilling for more oil here is not the way to reduce our dependence on oil!

Udie · « **Reply #6 on:** April 19, 2002, 10:53:17 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Drilling for more oil here is not the way to reduce our dependence on oil!

You are correct sir!

But it is a good strategic tactic to reduce our dependency of getting our lifeblood (oil) from an enemy ( the gov don't hate us but the population does so that makes them enemy in my book)

I think we need to drill in Texas and Alaska to make sure we have enough to not be held over a "barrel" hehe pun. I think we need to buy from Russia too, though not get too dependent on them either.

Mostly I think I agree with you Tahgut, we need another form besides oil. The tech is there now and this could lead to another 10 year booming economy when everybody rushes to be part of the new thing. But I'm a burn out doper, what do I know?

batdog · « **Reply #7 on:** April 19, 2002, 10:55:28 AM »

Actualy I "heard" or read somewhere that most of the oil we pump out ourselfs is SOLD overseas...

xBAT

Masherbrum · « **Reply #8 on:** April 19, 2002, 10:59:45 AM »

The Oil Barons have more power than the President of The United States. I am all for a plan to reduce dependency, but my first sentence is too true!

Mankind will never be satisfied until one person is left. I'm glad that stupid ploy to rip off americans for ruining a refuge failed. This government needs to begin to grab the Oil Barons and the Auto companies by the short and curly's and do something. But they won't.

Jay

~Caligula~ · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2002, 11:10:54 AM »

So once the oil problem is solved,the US should just turn away,and let all the maniacs run loose?
Once their oil money is taken away from them the arabs will be furious.Who`s gonna deal with them if not the "most powerful nation on earth" ?The UN? The UN is the biggest joke,there ever was.
The US makes big bucks on the rest of the world (just think of the money the US makes on every can of Coke,every pair of Nike etc.)
IMO a stable world is essencial to the US economy,and it`s not really a question of wether You`re sick of hearing bad news on CNN or not.
Israel will stay where it`s at now.Palestinians will get the west bank,and after they stop shooting in the air on their streets in their victory parades,they`ll reallize the only thing they know and want to do is to kill jews.They`ll blow up some more jewish childeren,and the IDF will reenter Judea and Samaria for the last time,and this time it will stay,and the pals will leave.
End of story.

miko2d · « **Reply #10 on:** April 19, 2002, 11:30:25 AM »

Masherbrum: Oil Barons have more power than the President of The United States
40% of US citizens care to vote for the US president once every four years and the 50% of popular vote the current pres had make his mandate a %20 or so.

On the other hand every US citisen votes every year with hunderds of dollars for the "Oil Barons". If you assume that an average voting citizen values his vote at $500 (how much money he would accept not to vote) and how many such $500 votes he/she casts every year for "Oil Barons" mandate, their power comes as no surprise - it is democratically elected.

This government needs to begin to grab the Oil Barons and the Auto companies by the short and curly's and do something. But they won't.
It was not in their election program. If they started doing that all of a sudden, that would be betraying the confidence of their voters. If you need a government that would do something, you have to elect the government with the appropriate program.

Curval - I have even better plan for solving the ME crisis for less money or even turning a profit on it.
Just allocate a few billion dollars and open immigration to US to all israelis and all palestinians willing to escape war.
Since they are all more productive then average american, it would be a huge boolst to US economy and we would recoup our initial investment in taxes in a couple of years. The fundamentalists of both sides who still want to fight for the posession of palestine for religious reasons may then kill each other as they please.

Of course escaping oil-depencency (as well as dependency on any non-renewable factor) is a goal always worth purcuing.

miko

Swoop · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2002, 11:33:08 AM »

This is all very well and good with lots of sensible thinking and what not.......

But......

In another thread that began with some chest beating and man-grunting we could all be discussing how awesome a V8, 600 cubic inch, twin turbo charged engine is........

Could ya give that up?

Ask Rip if he'd like to swap his BMW 330 for a solar powered milk float.

Udie · « **Reply #12 on:** April 19, 2002, 11:42:40 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Swoop
This is all very well and good with lots of sensible thinking and what not.......

But......

In another thread that began with some chest beating and man-grunting we could all be discussing how awesome a V8, 600 cubic inch, twin turbo charged engine is........

Could ya give that up?

Ask Rip if he'd like to swap his BMW 330 for a solar powered milk float.

Man what is it with you?!:mad: Why must you interject facts into this discussion? Everything was going along just fine and dandy! How am I supposed to mix my conjecture with your facts?

MEEEEP!

MrBill · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2002, 11:55:26 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Udie
Anything from the shoes on your feet to the pen you write with to the keyboard you type with, to the plastic that wraps your lunch uses oil.

Check the lables sometime,

much of the monomer's that are used in plastics mostly come from veggie sources. I believe the first plastics (sometime before wwll) used soybean monomers.

Quote

It's just not as cut and dry as I'd like it, it's a big tangled mess.... [/B]

True, so very true.

Curval · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2002, 12:15:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Swoop
This is all very well and good with lots of sensible thinking and what not.......

But......

In another thread that began with some chest beating and man-grunting we could all be discussing how awesome a V8, 600 cubic inch, twin turbo charged engine is........

Could ya give that up?

Ask Rip if he'd like to swap his BMW 330 for a solar powered milk float.

hehe...this is part of the fundemental change that will alter all of our lives that I mentioned in the original post. You are absolutely right Swoop....I have seen many threads which have discussed V-8's with their "torked out bendlerouters" etc in the O'Club....

There will undoubtedly be incredible resistance to the use of alternatives to oil in the US..for this reason.

But, I would ask Rip this...

"If he somehow knew that terrorists would end up killing his children ten years from now, which would he rather give up..the car, or his kids?"

I don't know him nearly as well as you do...but based on what I know of him so far I can say with absolute certainty that he would give up the Beemer.