Low Priority Front

[lazs]

i dont want to have some people in uber rides and others not.   I think it ruins the sortie.  A barrier is best.  A barrier is easy... 40K mountains or invisible barrier that sucked ur tanks allmost dry.. All areas could reset independently.  The circle idea is as bad as perk.   It rewards the wrong kind of behavior.
lazs

[BlauK]

Lazs,

IMO making the barriers is same as making 3 separate arenas, you can only see all the time where the action is. Furthermore it was quite realistic to sometimes have fights where late war and early war planes met... they all did not always have the best equipment. Actually I would not like it if I could not face any better planes at all in my early war plane  

I dont understand what you mean with "rewarding the wrong kind of behaviour"??

Would it not be a huge leap from the behaviour we have at MA at the moment?????

I am not even trying suggesting my own ideal arena ideas (strict HA with RPS), since if we want to keep all in one arena, it must be a compromise to allow all kind of action.

Another technical thing is if an area of the arena can be resetted separately.

[This message has been edited by BlauK (edited 04-24-2001).]

[Midnight]

What makes you think I am afraid of anything, lazs? I fly against N1Ks, C-hogs, D9s and La7s every day.

Again, your point contridicts itself.

 

Originally posted by lazs:
...no one wants to go where there are no people...

So how do you suggest this be handled? If no one is flying "on the other side" or your 40k barrier (yeah, that's realism) then who would be first to go there and fly all by themselves?

Let's see... maybe one of those attention starved bomber pilots. Sure. A bomber pilot would go there trying to bomb a field and not worry about getting shot down. Then some guy would come up in a fighter to kill the buff. Then the buff would re-up and maybe another friendly plane would go to kill the enemy fighter. When the enemy fighter got shot down, maybe he would re-up and a buddy might come to help. Then there could be more and more until there was a HUGE low altitude furball. Then, that attention starved guy in the bomber would fly over and take out the fighter hangers at the airfield and put a stop to that furball.

OH no! Now what to do?

I don't know lazs... maybe someday you will realize that some of the best fights are started by bombers trying to bomb something. The biggest furballs usually erupt very close to an endangered airfield.

Face it lazs.. there isn't enough popular support for what you want. Otherwise, the Dueling arena would be packed... Can't be porked, bases right next to each other, yet no huge never ending fights. Hmmmmm.. strange... I thought people just wanted a constant dog fight with no worries of bombers, or is that "Strat potatos" or maybe "perk jerks" or amish?

Grow up lazs. Quit trying to be offensive with your name labels and other insinuasions. It get's old.

Oh yeah... you want to see who can win? Let's go to the dueling arena... I'll give you all six barrels. And yes, that is a challenge.

------------------
Midnight CO
412th FG "Nightmare Mustangs"[/i]

The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information   davidl@splusnet.com  

"You tell them I'm coming.. And Hell's coming with me!" -Kurt Russel Tombstone

[This message has been edited by Midnight (edited 04-24-2001).]

[1776]

sniff,sniff,"yup, another one" heheeeeee

[lazs]

blau.. seperate arenas are quite different.  you have to log out and then back in and with no way of knowing if it is even worth it.  with the area arena everyone would have a chance to decide.  and... even in an early war area u would still face a lot of different planes, some of em better than others in a lot of ways.  just not so lopsided.

midnite.. early war area would have early war bombers.  they can be killed by early war planes and have small bombloads.  the bombing does need to be adjusted tho, and you are completely wrong in saying that the best fights are around the bombers bombing fields..... the bombers bombing fighter hangers creates non fites.  the best fites are areound the carriers... why?  because the carriers are the hardest too take out and that causes the fight to last long enough to develop insead of the "drop fh and gangbang" non fight ...  The low priority bases would reset independently.   no big deal.   People go where the numbers are but they like variety if it is easy.   lot of early war fans and they would "click" on an early war field in a second if only a few were allready there.   espcially if the dipshits had blasted fighter hangers for a 2-3 field radius in the more popular areas and it meant a 2-4 sector roadkill ride to a fite.

What are u afraid of?  you are afraid that people won't play your game if they are given any choice.   I happen to think that there is room for everyone...   Challenge?  Yeah... come and get me, i'm easy to find but you will have to get down and dirty.  I've never even seen you in the arena. we don't fly the same game.
lazs

[lazs]

oh blau... "realism"... I don't want the "realism" of 6 hour flights or preflight warmups or never seeing the enemy for an entire year or..... The lopsided meeting of early war planes against late war uber rides.  You are right.. that is for an historical arena and those with so little imagination that they can think they are doing something "historical" in a sim.  I just want as level a playing field as possible ac wise and let the chips fall where they may after that.   I don't want to fight vastly superior planes and i don't want to slaughter vastly inferior ones.  I think a lot of people feel the same.
lazs

[BlauK]

Originally posted by lazs:
oh blau... "realism"... I don't want the "realism" of 6 hour flights or preflight warmups or never seeing the enemy for an entire year or.....

Uhh.. ohh.. I dont think I talked about anything like that. I referref to the situation which we have at the moment... early war and late war planes on the same arena. I was just trying to argue against a statement that we dont now have a "realistic" setup of planes. I said that it is ok IMO to have such match-ups sometimes, but not all the time.


The lopsided meeting of early war planes against late war uber rides.  You are right.. that is for an historical arena and those with so little imagination that they can think they are doing something "historical" in a sim.

No no... in a historical arena the plane match-ups would be much more even and correct. For the MA the uneven match-ups only add some spice. But at present MA is just full of spice, thus overwhelming the real flavor.


I just want as level a playing field as possible ac wise and let the chips fall where they may after that.   I don't want to fight vastly superior planes and i don't want to slaughter vastly inferior ones.  I think a lot of people feel the same.
lazs

I think you fail to see that we are on the same side on this. I am just trying to figure out a compromise which HTC could actually put to practice without losing all those late-war-furballers and still give us some chances for the more evenly set match-ups and early war encounters. What you are asking would take away what those other guys enjoy. You yourself state that people have to be given choises, not taken them away. IMO it is better to keep it in some form and try to mix more possibilities in the same game.

About the barriers not being same as different arenas... Well, not quite the same, but almost. The difference being 2 mouse clicks nad the ability to see where the action is. Still one would have to land nad re-up the plane to switch from early to mid war. Without barriers one could actually fly to the closest encounter from early to mid war.

Barriers would separate the action and force people to use certain planes. I dont think there are enough pilots for 3 separate areas or arenas. The action must be flexible.

Lazs, do you find my suggestions much worse than the situation we have at MA at the moment???

[Jochen]

I still think that no unpenetrable barrier like 40 kft mountains is needed between LFP and HPF.

Think LPF as North Africa and HPF as Western Europe. Carriers did transport new planes to North Africa regularly, most notably to Malta. This would happen in MA too with LPF/HPF division.

If some country is doing very badly in LPF it could send fleet to help its fight in there. Or they could launch a mid/late war bombers to bomb enemy bases in LPF. Since the distance would be quite large it wouldn't happen too often.

LPF/HPF scheme would not and cannot guarantee that every country has possibility to fly LPF planes all the time. It was like that in real war too and it needs to be accepted.

Main action would still be in HPF with majority of pilots. HPF would still be most important when deciding arena resets. Most of strat elements would be in HPF and if country loses them its fight in LPF would become very very difficult indeed.

Anyone at HTC (except natedog, superfly, ronnie or yankee) can comment on this idea? If we build it will you guys use it?

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jochen / Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolschevismus!

[lazs]

blau... i think joch has a handle on it.   If early war planes have any following then they  will be used in the LPF.   the barriers need to be there.   spice is not fighting vastly superior ac.   even someone with my mediocre skill finds it boringly simple to take out the average player when he is saddled with inferior iron.  A 109E or Spit1 would stand no chance against hellcats or hogs or spit9/14.   not worth doing.  I don't want to be on either side of that equation.  Most people do not want to be B&Zed by vastly faster ac.   This is the "realism" that is not fun and not worth simulating same for 6 hour flights etc.

The field capture needs badly to be changed in a very simple way.  let fighters be available till the field is closed.  
lazs

[BlauK]

Lazs,

I also agree with Jochen   and I think he is for the idea not against it   He also says that barriers are not needed.

There is no need to guarantee the early war action. It happens first and when areas are conquered the war noves on to mid war etc. The war can ofcource move back to LPF as well.

The best thing about this is that the early war planes would still be available at other fields too. Only their opponents would more likely be better planes than at LPF.

I am also considering this with the planes AH has now. We dont know if it will ever have Spit1a or 109E-4 or other BoB planes. Just divide the present planes in 3 categories.

If the map is large enough (maybe only a bit larger than at present) the distance is all the barriers we need. You yourself talk about how boring it would be to fly long distances... that is what the late war planes would have to do if they wanted to go to LPF.

[This message has been edited by BlauK (edited 04-24-2001).]

[lazs]

blau.. i agree... to a certain extent... long distances are usually enough for most people but bomber guys are immune to boredom.   Maybe make it so that bombers were not available at even the fields closest to the borders?  somehow u have to keep the attention starved and the opportunists away.  If they can dweeb it they will.   I've watched PT boats respawn a dozen times 100 yards away from the carrier and be blown up each time in order that they could get off a torpedo or two... same with suicide bombers.

I have nothing against any earlier war plane being available at later fields.  there are some who enjoy the challenge and they would be welcome.   It does not work the reverse tho... many would like to fly some of the less advanced ac without being pestered by far superior planes.
lazs