Why I (personally) feel the CT is a failure

[Urchin]

1.  It is Boring.
2.  See 1.
3.  See 2.

No offense to anyone who took the time to set the maps and campaigns up... but it is boring.  

For instance, I logged in, looked at the MA.  450-odd people, 300-odd ping.  CT had 23 people, and a nice 87 ping.  I figured I'd give it a try.  

Unfortunately, I ended up in the "Pacific" setting (no offense Jarbo, because it is always like this.. boring, that is).  16 Allies, 7 Japs.  I go Japs.  Take off, see someone getting BnZ'ed by 3 people.  They finally get shot down as I get there, computer locks up as I engage.  

I reboot it, come back.. and everyone is gone.  All the Allied 'pilots' anyway.  I fly to an enemy base, by myself.. in a Zeke.  I deack their base, by myself.. in a zeke.  I LAND ON THEIR RUNWAY, taxi next to the tower, and turn off the engine.  Still couldnt get one to fight.  All of them.. ALL of them, were milkrunning a base we couldn't even TAKE OFF FROM!  

Oh yes.. how fun.  I took off and did some aerobatics through their hangars, landed and headed to the closest base we could actually take off from.  There I discovered that even two on one wasn't enough, unless the two had an altitude advantage to start with.  

The planeset we have for the Pacific isnt even close to fun.  The Japanese planes are WAY to slow to force a fight, and the people flying the Allied planes (which most people want to fly, because it means they'll die less) are to chickenshit to even THINK about fighting (even BnZ'ing) unless they have both numbers and altitude.

The really sad thing is that if the N1K2 were free, all the folks flying Allied now would be on the Japanese side.  Of course, at least then I'd be able to get into a fight.  Same thing if it was an 'early war' setup with F4F's, P-40s' amd P-39s....  Can you say A6M2?  I guarantee you the numbers would be at least 16 to 7... for the Japanese.

Anyway, thats it.  I might come around again for a European planeset, but count me out of the Pacific ones (and most everyone else as well, from the looks of it).

[Karnak]

Ki-84 would be a great equalizer in the fighter department for 1944 Pac Theatre setups.  It was produced in huge quantities (3,500) and is fast enough to make running an iffy option for the USN and USAAF.

[Buzzbait]

S! Urchin

Great Work as a C/O Urchin!...  

On to the subject at hand:

You come in for a setup you don't like and then label the entire CT as boring...   hmmm...

Maybe you should consider that, yes, sometimes all of the setups in the CT may not appeal to everyone, all the time.

That doesn't mean it is a failure.

It more likely means that you have your buttons pushed by certain historical periods, and not by others.

It means you should fly it when you find it interesting, and not when you don't.

But don't expect it to appeal to you all the time, or even a majority of the time....  


                                              Cheers Buzzbait

[oboe]

The planes in Karnak's signature, plus the D4Y Susei, Ki.45 Toryu, and J2M3 Raiden would go along way towards aircraft parity.

They might even get enough people interested in Japanese planes to start a Japanese CT squad.

When I logged in tonight there were 454 in the MA and 21 in the CT.   That's a big part of the problem.  We need to get 40-60 in the CT, regularly.   I'm not sure what the answer is.

[brady]

Generaly the CT runs at an average of 30 players during peak times, some set up's draw more than others,as Urchin has eluded to the pac set up's do well but not as well as the Europen set up's, this is do largely to the planes we have to work with.

 The A6M2, is more than a match for the Allied planes in the time frame it was serving.

  A section from Americas 100 thousand states that the Zero was , faster, climbeed better and handeled better than the F4F.

[eskimo2]

Hmmm.
The MA bores me more often.

eskimo

[Sandman]

Originally posted by brady
The A6M2, is more than a match for the Allied planes in the time frame it was serving.

  A section from Americas 100 thousand states that the Zero was , faster, climbeed better and handeled better than the F4F.

It would be nice to have something that the Zero could outrun. I like the zeke, but lately the CT has been rather frustrating. It's totally outclassed by the P38L. I can deal with the P51B and the F4U1, but the P38 is just a pain. It doesn't make sense that the N1K is perked and the P38 is not. Why is the N1K perked anyway? Is it because they don't like it in the MA?

Not that I care for the N1K or even care about the low perk points. The problem is that it's a perk plane. You know what people do when they see an enemy perk plane. They forget everything and that plane becomes the primary target above all else.

Hell... I'm probably speaking out of ignorance. I have no idea what is perked on the allied side. I've been flying Japanese since the beginning of this tour.

Oh... and Urchin, it's not boring. It's not the MA.

[Urchin]

It isn't so much that I like particular planesets/periods as I like parity.  

Sure, it may be historically accurate for the Allies to have twice as many players, and to refuse combat unless they have every possible advantage going in, but is it fun?  Nope.  At least not for me.  I imagine it certainly could be 'fun' for some people.

There is no comparing the performance of the A6M5 and the Ki-61 to the P-51, F6F, F4U, or P-38.  

I'm no expert in any of the U.S. rides- but you could put me in one of the above and the best A6M pilot in the world in the Zeke, and I'd still win every fight.  And that is a 1v1, co-alt situation.  Not a 2, 3, or 4 on 1 with an altitude advantage situation, which is where the players who choose to try to even the numbers up find themselves.

And because there is no comparing the performance of the planes, there is also no comparing the average count of each side.  Literally every time I've gone into the CT, the Japanese side was outnumbered at least two to one.  

I think the worst part is that there will NEVER be parity with that planeset.  If you introduce the Ki-84 and leave the N1K2 free, people will fly those because they think they'll have a larger advantage in the Ki-84 and N1K2 against the above U.S. planes than they have now in the above U.S. planes against the A6M and the Ki-61.  Leave those two out, and it is just about impossible for the Japanese side to get any kills.  That isn't fun at all.

With the European planeset, every plane is close enough in performance that it really comes down to pilot skill (in my opinion).  With what we have now, the players who go Japanese get slaughtered, regardless of pilot skill.  Well, either that or they prove how 'good' they are by never fighting at all.

[Wotan]

I hear the same thing from alot of folks about pac setups. I have stated as much in previous posts.

However, I am not as good as Urchin or most guys in AH and I have been rather successful in the pac setups when I can find a fight. Several times I have flown to a base deacked it and allowed folks to up and get some  alt as long as they didnt just run.

If you kept running from me I would hunt you down and vulch you. I would also let you know why.

That said I still find a good level of fun in the ct. I admit getting kills at times is like pulling teeth. Especially when a guy is flying  timidly. Theres no real BnZ in the fights I have found. Its hit and run and usually its to ack. Theres no way any one can force some else to fly how we want them too. I agree with Buzz fly the ones you like and if you feel you have a better idea let us hear it with out the rest of the BS (not in this post but some of the others). No one here is trying to cheat you out of a good time. We want everyone who flies there to have fun but thats not gonna happen with every setup.

My personal belief is the greater the parity between the planeset the better the fun is all round.

With 1.10 bringing us an early pac set up I think it will do more for the fun factor then any setting tweak made on our end. The ct for the most part will never replace the main but has great promise in offering something a bit more unique in terms of terrains and plane match ups. The rest is up to the guys to fly there to decide what type of "gameplay" they want to get out of the ct.

We cant stop someone who doesnt want to fight, we cant stop someone who just wants to milkrun. I will tell you this coming from a lw guy. When the early pac stuff gets ingame I will be tempted to run mostly pac set ups. Enjoy the ones you can.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Urchin
I LAND ON THEIR RUNWAY, taxi next to the tower, and turn off the engine.  Still couldnt get one to fight.  All of them.. ALL of them, were milkrunning a base we couldn't even TAKE OFF FROM!

I worried that my laughter would wake up my kids.  Did you spray foul slogans on their hangers while you were there?

Last night turned out so lop-sided because it was Oboe's squad night.  Frankly, I thought it was more fun than Wednesday night, when Wild Wednesday drew off the crowd and we had 4 v. 4.  I'm happy to fly the short side if it helps attract more people and their squads.

That does not, of course, explain the embarrassing fact that Oboe's squad was attacking a base that couldn't generate defense fighters.  I'm eager to hear his explanation for that lameness.

- oldman

[oboe]

Speaking about last night in particular, I'm sure the "milkrunning" was unintentional - the mission was put up in the planner for A21 and I'm sure the planner didn't know you IJ couldn't up planes there.  Apologies for that.   It was a complicated mission plan with flights converging on A21 from multiple launch points, and we just stuck with the plan to accomplish a squad night goal.

It was a no-win situation though - had the IJ been able to up there, we may have heard complaints about 2v1 vulching.   As it was, the IJ had a fairly close field to up from and gain some alt if desired before reaching the battle area.

As far as dogfighting against the Japanese planes, well this is the CT - its dissimiliar aircraft combat and if you want to survive and win, you fly your aircraft to its strengths, not its weaknesses.  Only a newbie or an overly-aggressive, foolish pilot is going to dogfight an A6M in an F4U-1.    Taunting on the open channel may get some to break down and turn fight with you, but not me (hopefully I stay smarter than that ).

Better, faster IJ a/c and more people in the CT are long term solutions, maybe reducing the perk cost of the N1K is a short term one?

I'll open a discussion within my squad about things we might do to address 2v1 or greater imbalances.

!

[Kieran]

I don't get it either. I win as many as I lose in the PAC setup, and I usually fly Japanese. I mix it up at every opportunity. But that isn't everyone.

Some guys come in to play the strat game, which is cool. If they choose to take a base and avoid dying, that is ok, it is part of the CT. It seems to me the CT is a place where a lot of guys go to furball, which is what I do, and I've had some very fun fights. Some nights it's good, some nights it's not.

Urchin, it seems to me you can't have it both ways. You've complained in the past about MA gangbangs- well, they don't happen here. The flipside is there are fewer fights.

[Kieran]

Oboe-

I am just such a foolish pilot. I came to fight, not run. I may extend out enough to get some room to reverse, but I am coming back.

[TheOxman]

The CT is not a failure.  The CT is a
wonderful thing. It provides the chance to fight in a 'Balanced' environment and a more realistic and historic setting. Don't ya'll get tired of Spit vs. Spit. vs. La7 vs. Spit. vs Spit....etc. You can't force people to fight in the CT. The CT is to me a Practice/mini-MA. You can fly perked planes that are low in cost compared to the MA. I love the CT:D I wish more would come to the CT. Thursday night Apr. 25. Me and another guys vs. 7 (Hellcat squad) I love oods like that. I can begin to tell ya'll how much fun i had. Besides where would the people from the MA go when ya'll cant get into it .
If i could i would pass out flyer in the MA to come to the CT  Come on down to the CT, Where most of the perked planes are FREE! Come one come All! and Try the new Zeke with that big Red Meatball!


-TheOxman (CT junkie/Groupie)

[Preon1]

Originally posted by Oldman731


That does not, of course, explain the embarrassing fact that Oboe's squad was attacking a base that couldn't generate defense fighters.  I'm eager to hear his explanation for that lameness.

- oldman

Actually oldman, I was thinking about starting to hold squadron practice in the CT because of the low intensity combat.  Most of the pilots in my squad aren't very practiced so the first thing we'd probably do is milkrun a base with no opposition just so everyone gets a chance to practice it before we go after a REAL target.  Hopefully you count that as a decent excuse.