Why Bother?

[skernsk]

TOD participants.  Thanks for those who participated and I was EXTREMELY happy to see 77 Allied and 77 Axis at the start of Frame 3.  Usually we see a decrease and some sort of imbalance by frame 3 with the numbers

I just wanted to point out that this TOD represented several hours of my time.  I am sure that it could have been done better and hopefully as I do more of these (this is my 3rd TOD) I will make them better.

I was dissapointed tonight that a frame CO did not arrive.  I am not sure why, and I would hope that an XO would have been clued into what the plans were.  And that the FLEET was NOT TO BE TOUCHED during the event.  I found out that the fleet was zig zagging all over the damn place.  I know some Frame we have let the CO's move the fleets but in this case (AS WAS POINTED OUT IN THE ORDERS TO THE FRAME CO) the fleet was not to be moved since the Axis fleet was parked like a sitting duck in port I felt that the Axis had it tough without the worry of a fleet turning at the last second.

Now to be clear I am not blaming the CO...I know stuff happens and this is secondary to any real life event that comes up.  I am sure that whoever was doing it was not clued into the restriction. The following is from the orders I sent to the CO:

One rule, and to save yourself some complaints tell your side in advance. YOU MAY NOT MANEUVER THE FLEET AFTER TAKEOFF.  I will ask you take control of the fleet and place the fleet in a “patrol” pattern within the red square and then leave it alone.  Make sure the pattern has some long lines so that planes can safely RTB without worrying about a turning CV.  The reason is that your fleet is a stationary target and the Axis are at a disadvantage since your fleet is moving.  I hate rules and penalty points so I’ll leave it at that.



THEN and this is why I'm pissed off....it seems a squad (or more than one) decided that A3 was a fun place to attack.  Hell, it isn't even being defended lets rack up the points.  The reason (for those who have no friggin clue) that we ask you to stick to the objectives is so that both sides see action and have a equal chance at attacking and defending these objectives.  A3 was NOT n objective.

What I feel like at this point is that I spent a few hours writing and researching this TOD.  It is not 100% historical but all planes in this TOD were in Norway at some point.  I make the objectives up so that will never be 100% historical.  I also wrote these objectives up for all three frames (Axis and Allied) and tried the moving front so that the event was less mundane.  In total I would guess about 12 hours went into the event.

Now I get to spend EXTRA time looking through the logs to see who was.....the love muffin that went off and blew toejam up that was not defended.  I also have to assess some sort of penalty points to the Allied side (as was written in the orders) for maneuvering the fleet.  Wow...how fediddleing exciting!

It's time for a break.

[Wotan]

I was gonna wait till next week to point this out but since your already pissed I will throw it out now.

We saw no defensive cap anywhere. It was my understanding that all objectives (defensive and offensive) was to have a squad or squads execute them.

Why I certainly agree that a use of overwhelming force to achieve your objectives is certainly viable but it doesnt make for real fun overall gameplay.

I  had all my objectives covered and set the SBMs on a tour of Norway  because of the lack of defensive cap. On the other hand another axis squad was wiped out out numbered 3 to1. A few guys in my squad never fired a shot.

There was no cap at 5 12 or cv. atleast half the axis were involve in offensive strikes with no opposition.

Just something to think about in the future. I enjoy the ct and really hope it grows.

[Toad]

Skernsk... breathe in deeeeeeply... hold.. hold.. hold.. exhaaaaaaaaale..... Again..




I know yer p*ssed (and I had nothing to do with any of it.. I'm just a soldier in the great war) but we do appreicate your effort.

Something was bollixed up.. my squad didn't even get the orders before the frame started.

So, comms were fubar. CO didn't show up. We do need an XO ready to step in. We'll keep working on it till we get it right.

I still had fun.

Thanks for your effort.

[AKcurly]

Go hold your new baby, Skernsk.  We had fun.  

curly

[ghostdancer]

skernsk,

Not to worry about the fleet. When our 109 scout/sweepers found it around 11:30 it did indeed start evasives but within 10 minutes it stop doing so and steamed east on a straight course. When the JU88s and 110s got there the allied fleet was steam straight and no evasives were conducted by it.

So it did not affect our attack .. we still ended up killing the entire fleet (Nightmares got 3 DD and CV and softened up the other DD and CA for others).

As for their not being cap at the enemy fleet. Suprised me to no end and yes it did allow the allies to throw an overwhelming force else where but it also caused them to lose 4 DDs, 1 CA, and 1 CV. If they had some cap some of their ships would have survived. As is it took our JU88s two runs and then took Wotan's 110s and Frenchy's scrafing help also.

So I am not upset that the allies were not there defending .. it was their choice to sacrifice their whole fleet while they concentrated elswhere. Basically it allowed us with some help to wrack up around 1050 (had 1 DD kill die to ack and another ditch .. otherwise could have scored 1200 points).

[Sikboy]

I feel kinda bad about the CV thing. While I didn't move the CV, I did ask if we could move it closer to shore, because I didn't think my squad would have enough gas to get back to A5 (as if we needed to RTB lol). I hate to admit this, but I had no clue that Aub wasn't there. I tend to tune things out if they don't directly address me. That's why when you kept asking "Who's in Charge of the Allies" I was all "um, Aub" I wasn't pulling your chain, I didn't actually know he wasn't there (note to self, pay more attention). I Actually have a squadmate assigned to paying attention to things (-04-) but he wasn't up last night. I had no contengency shill. I'll work on my C&C skills

With that said, Skernsk. This was Shillelagh's first TOD and we had a blast. We will likely increase our numbers for the next TOD and it's largely because of the fun we had with your scenario. As you mentioned, we didn't have any trouble with imbalance, and it was a hell of a lot of fun to fly the blue planes against the Waffles (even if they handed me my navy bellybutton in frames 1&3, gonna have to change my name to Silkboy). This is a great event, and I'm glad that we have dedicated people spending their valueble time making sure that I have something to do on a Friday night. In a perfect world, we would all pool some money and send you to the Bahamas for a week. But this is earth so DANCE MONKEY, DANCE!!!! (just kidding) Again, and thank you.

-Sikboy

[Ripsnort]

Was this rule in place beginning this frame?

[skernsk]

Heh...what a whiner I am

I was tired and cranky last night when I posted that...I was going to delete it, but that would have taken too much effort.

Rip, which rule are you reffering to?  

Sorry abour the rant fellas.  I'm not looking for 's or WTG's I was frustrated at some of the things that were communicated to me.  I was not there to see it first hand and perhaps I should have confirmed what happend before this post, but no names were mentioned.

As for the Frame CO.  It is his first time as Frame CO.  I did not see his orders.  If he chose not to CAP any of his defensive objectives then that is his choice.  It might be a milk run for a squad or 3, but they can always RTB, rearm and ask where the action is.

[TheFatz]

THEN and this is why I'm pissed off....it seems a squad (or more than one) decided that A3 was a fun place to attack. Hell, it isn't even being defended lets rack up the points. The reason (for those who have no friggin clue) that we ask you to stick to the objectives is so that both sides see action and have a equal chance at attacking and defending these objectives. A3 was NOT n objective.

What I feel like at this point is that I spent a few hours writing and researching this TOD. It is not 100% historical but all planes in this TOD were in Norway at some point. I make the objectives up so that will never be 100% historical. I also wrote these objectives up for all three frames (Axis and Allied) and tried the moving front so that the event was less mundane. In total I would guess about 12 hours went into the event.

Now I get to spend EXTRA time looking through the logs to see who was.....the love muffin that went off and blew toejam up that was not defended. I also have to assess some sort of penalty points to the Allied side (as was written in the orders) for maneuvering the fleet. Wow...how fediddleing exciting!

That would be the 412th Braunco Mustangs.  We blew stuff up, cause we had time, and bombs and our primary was done.  Dont want stuff blown up, then get rid of the stuff.  I guess you want it like this?

Rules of the TOD:

If you goto target and kill everything and rtb, you should land and exit game, even if you have one hour of playing time.  You paid your $15 monthly fee, but your not allowed to attack any enemy bases that fire back at you unless skernsk says its ok in his grand plan.  I repeat your are not allowed to have any more fun then what we assign to you, no going to another base and attacking it.  If you feel you must attack another base, you must post on chan 1 what base your going to so the enemy can respond in force to make it fair.  Any objections to this and you will have point deductions.  

The Managment.

Well skernsk, call us love muffines if you want.  Piss us off if you want.  Say what you want, but when all of a sudden a 20+ member squad pulls out of the TOD cause the CM pissed everybody off for having some fun dont blame us.  

Man we show up and try to fly your TOD, the TOD CO doesnt show up, we have no clue whats going on, so we attack a target and you call us love muffines.

Thanks skernsk.


TheFatz

[sling322]

I would actually like to respond to this, but I need to head out for work.  I will respond when I have time later tonight.

I ask in the meantime that no one jump off the deep end and do anything too harsh....it seems that skernsk already did.  

[skernsk]

Yup I already did Sling:)


Well put Fatz...are you in the media because you have a heck of a way with spinning a yarn.  Fatz here it is from my side.  I give 3 objectives that are offensive and 3 that are defensive.  Frame CO's decide what to do with that.

Now the reason we ask you to stick to the objectives and ONLY the objectives is that you might end up hitting a base that has absolutely no defense and therefore pork the points.  

As it turns out I left the event and was told after that somebody flattened A3.  When I look at the logs a few acks were hit and less than 30 points were scored by your squad.  I overreacted without knowing what ws actually hit.  I did not find that out until this morning when Exile posted results.  You can easily rack up hundreds of points all night long at undefended targets.  This is something we try to avoid.  

Now I admit I came accross as an bellybutton in the intial thread, but why don't you do the work and worry about the complaints and the numbers, the score and several other issues.  

We went through this same situation a few months ago though Fatz and explained toi all TOD participants why we ask you stick to the objectives.  That is why I am frustrated.  Now, I apologize for my poor choice of words, and will try not to lose my temper once again.

[Wotan]

my point about no defensive cap is that while it was a milkrun its pretty boring. I can deack and level i field my self. I had nearly 20 guys hit a5.

We flew 4 sectore hit 5 flew 2 more sectors to a3 then 3 more sectors to the nme cv then 2 more sectors to rtb seeing no enemy.

While at the other end a squad was whiped out at 3 to 1 odds. I have np with overwhelming the defenses, I had planned that at 5, from the sounds of the guys that we whiped out they weren't too happy and from guys that flew with me were pretty bored.

I klled the 2 fhs at 5 a bunch of ack and a cruiser so it wasn't too bad. but a few of my guys didnt even drop their bombs.

[skernsk]

I heard from the Allied CO Wotan and he had something very important to deal with.

I asked him in an e-mail what happend to his CAP and he told me he did not plan on using it.  In hind sight I guess I might have been a bad idea.

I don't want us to become "micro" managers to the Frame CO' so as long as the CO is hitting the objectives that are given to him that is all we really ask.  If there are certian rules, or restrictions we will include that also.

Every once in a while a milk run happens Wotan

[daddog]

I heard from the Allied CO Wotan and he had something very important to deal with.

He did. Somewhat of an emergency when the young lady you were to pick up at the bus did not show up. She was missing for several hours and was quite a scare for that family.

Could be his X.O. dropped the ball or some communication break there, but those kinds of things happen.

[sling322]

Skernsk pretty much covered it.

The objectives are planned the way they are to assure that everybody gets a chance to see some action.  If we were to just turn you loose in the arena and tell you to hit whatever you want then it wouldnt be much fun cause nobody would even try to hit a target where he knew the enemy would be.  The COs are given objectives and are also tipped off on what the enemy objectives are for the purpose of having guys try to keep the enemy from accomplishing their goals.  

If both sides say screw the CAP and just perform offensive missions then it becomes a point race and any slight miscalculation by the CM on determing the objectives becomes huge in the amount of points that can be earned.  This is one of the reasons that we are attempting to move to a more objective based scoring rather than simply giving points for each object destroyed.  

We had a situation come up in the past where one of the squads really worked over a training facility and racked up a massive amount of points.  The amount of points earned were over half of the total amount that the other side could have earned, so it became a problem score-wise.  With the objective scoring, we would give points based on the percentage of the target destroyed and also award points for the successful defense of an objective.

If any of you have any suggestions to help make it better, please feel free to share.  We always have our ears open to new suggestions.