Author Topic: Time for the Brewster? (Read 8783 times)

BNM · « **Reply #210 on:** January 01, 2003, 12:23:43 PM »

That picture was indeed a Dutch 339D model. The one I'd like to see in AH is the B-239 which were the F2A-1s we sent to Finland originally. This is the plane Hans Wind got most of his kills in.

They actually found one not too long ago in a lake HERE. It's for sale!

This is a painting of Hans' Buffalo. He is credited with 26 1/2 kills in this plane alone:

Here's some info on the Brewster B-239 "Buffalo":

The F2A-1s diverted to Finland were given the company designation B-239. The naval equipment (tail hook, life raft, catapult harness) was removed, and the telescopic sight was replaced by a simple bead and sight arrangement. Armament consisted of one 0.30-in and one 0.50-in machine gun in the cowling, plus two 0.50-in machine guns in the wings. The engine was replaced by an export-approved 950 hp Wright R-1820-G5 radial. Maximum speed was 297 mph at 15,580 feet and service ceiling was 32,500 feet. Empty weight was 3900 pounds, and maximum weight was 5820 pounds.

The B-239s were transferred to Finland via Trollhattan, Sweden, where they were assembled by Norwegian Air Force mechanics. They were then ferried to Finland by both American and Finnish pilots. Only six examples had reached Finland by the time that the Russo-Finnish "Winter War" ended on March 3, 1940. During the uneasy peace that followed, Finnish personnel made a number of modifications to their Brewsters, including the installation of an armored headrest and seat back, plus a reflector gunsight in place of the original bead and ring.

A total of 44 B-239s reached Finland, and they were assigned the Finnish serial numbers BW-351 through BW-394. The B-239s were assigned to Lentolaivue 24 (LeLv 24), 32 being used on active duty and the rest held in reserve.

Finland went to war against Russia again on June 25, 1941, this time allied with Germany. During the first few months, the Brewsters were able to maintain air superiority over the northern front. The Finns found the Brewster to be very maneuverable at low level. B-239s encountered LaGG-3s, Yak-1s and Yak-7s, as well as Lend-Lease Hurricanes, P-40s and P-39s. The highest-scoring B-239 ace was Hans Wind, who got 39 of his 75 kills flying the B-239. The leading Finnish ace, Eino Juutilainen, scored 34 of his 94 kills while attached to LeLv 24 flying Brewsters.

As the war with Russia wore on, maintenance of the Finnish B-239s became an increasingly serious problem, since Finland was now allied with Germany and no longer had access to American spare parts. In an attempt to overcome these problems, at least six B-239s were fitted with captured Russian M-63 radials (these were license-built versions of the Wright Cyclone). The Finnish State Aircraft Factory also began the development of a homebuilt version of the B-239, this with a captured M-63 engine and plywood wings. This aircraft was known locally as the Humu. However, only one prototype was built.

Experiments were made with ski landing gear for operations from snow-covered fields. However, the landing gear could not be retracted when the skis were fitted, and this severely degraded performance. Consequently, skis were rarely used operationally.

In 1944, LeLv 24 traded in its surviving B-239s for Messerschmitt Bf 109G-2s. These B-239s were transferred to HLeLv 26. Kills continued to be scored, but by this time the Soviets had deployed large numbers of high-performance fighters and losses of B-239s began to mount. HLeLv 26 continued to operate its B-239s until the end, when an armistice was signed with the Soviets on September 4, 1944. Finland then switched sides and began to drive German forces out of Finnish territory. The Brewsters were flown against retreating German forces in Lapland, scoring several kills against Ju-87 Stukas.

After five years of combat and attrition, only eight Brewsters remained in the Finnish inventory. These surviving Finnish Brewsters were used in the training role until late 1948. During its combat career, the B-239 is credited with 496 kills, against 19 losses, for a victory ratio of 26 to 1. Finnish air force records credit 41 kills to a single B-239 before it was shot down. Is there any other fighter aircraft in history which has a record as good as this? After the war, the Humu prototype was restored and is on display in a museum in Finland. It is believed to be the sole surviving Buffalo in the world today.

Just hope noone considers this a punt....

whgates3 · « **Reply #211 on:** January 01, 2003, 02:36:29 PM »

many thanx...one ETO plane i can think of with a similarly impressive operational record - the P-61 - no combat losses in the ETO (of course this was done with allied air superiority, but He219 & Arado Blitz night fighters had to be a tough birds to fight & daytime air superiority vanishes with the sunset. PTO record of the P-61 is less clear)...didn't know the Brewster was effective so late in the war

214thCavalier · « **Reply #212 on:** January 01, 2003, 05:20:43 PM »

BNM correction in order i believe.

The leading Finnish ace was Air Master Sergeant Ilmari "ILLU" Juutilainen 94 kills awarded Knight of Mannerhein Cross twice.

Second was Captain Hans "Hasse" Wind 75 kills awarded KMC twice.

And third was Major Eino "Eikka" Luukkanen 56 kills awarded KMC once.

My source also indicates that during the early part of the war (Continuation war) the Brewsters achieved a 32:1 success ratio whilst being outmunbered 2:1 by the soviets.

From 1943 on the Brewsters began suffering from aircraft design advances against them and they replaced them with ME109's although at least one squad stayed with the Brewster throughout the war, i would think it was this squad that lowered the overall kills ratio by wars end as the Brewster was suffering against the newer soviet fighters.

Success ratio with the ME109's was 25:1 by wars end.

At start of war they achieved a 16:1 air to air kill ratio using Fokker D.XXI (FR) 840 HP 1936 design Top speed 185 Knots at low level and 225 Knots at altitude Ceiling 33,000ft Guns 4 x Browning 7.7 mm pea shooters

Perhaps their secrets was a heavy emphasis on aerial gunnery practice long before war was declared, and practice of loose, broad section and finger four tactics as early as 1935.

Ilmari juutilainen never took any damage from an enemy fighter, he suffered AAA damage and some slight damage from bombers defensive guns only.

HT please give em the Brewster as and when it suits you of course, not for me but so I can watch those LLV 34 chaps struggle to get kills

Hi BlauK and Snefens

whgates3 · « **Reply #213 on:** January 01, 2003, 11:15:15 PM »

...so it was the addition of ninja pilot to the Brewsters that made them perform so well...

LLv34_Camouflage · « **Reply #214 on:** January 02, 2003, 04:59:18 AM »

BNM: Hasse Wind's record-breaking Brewster was the BW-393. The BW-364 was Illu Juutilainen's plane, seen in that picture by Jerry Boucher, which you posted.

For answers to "why were the Finns so succesful with the Brewster", read the first few pages of this thread.

Camo

Otto · « **Reply #215 on:** January 02, 2003, 01:45:18 PM »

I live 5 miles from the old Brewster plant in Warrminster, Pa.

Bow before me.........

Grendel · « **Reply #216 on:** January 03, 2003, 05:14:29 AM »

Good info there. Just a small correction:

During the early and middle part of Continuation War the Brewsters achieved kill ratio of something like 60:1.

32:1 is the air combat ratio for the whole war, 1941-1945.

Not too bad for a plane often regarded as complete dog. Highest kill ratio of any WW2 plane type, highest scoring airframe etc.

It's interesting to read how the British and Dutch pilots actually achieved about 1:1 exchange ratio against the Japanese in Far East.

The bad reputation of Brewster "Buffalo" mainly stems from the green American pilots in Midway, who got slaughtered trying to turn against the far more nimbler Zeroes. Just bad tactics, not a bad plane.

Grendel · « **Reply #217 on:** January 03, 2003, 05:19:52 AM »

Some information

The Dutch using the Brewster B-339:

On the 12th of January 1942 they first came into action. When at 10 am A Japanese air raid happened with 5 Army '97's (Nakajima) KI-27) vaandrigs (reserve officer candidate) Swarts, Scheefer and Sgt. Bruggink took off with their Buffaloes and succeeded in chasing away the Japanese. Vaandrig Swarts did hit one Japanese bomber's engine so it started smoking. In the afternoon the bombers came back. Now Capt. van Helsdingen, Lt. Deibel and Sgt. Bruggink took of. At 4000 m. they came into a fight with 9 Japanese Army 97's. Four were shot down, two by Deibel and one each by van Helsdingen and Bruggink. Deibel himself was shot down, but lightly wounded on his head he managed to save himself with his parachute. After four days hospital he was cured and send away.

On the 15th again the Dutch Buffaloes came into action, when above Singapore van Helsdingen, Swarts and Bruggink again fought with a over powerful number of Navy Zeros. Vaandrig Swarts was shot down and killed.

On the 16th Bruggink went into a battle with a formation bombers without visible results.

Twenty Buffaloes came into action on 23 January above Makassar Strait when they took of with two 50 kg bombs each. From a high altitude they dived to the Japanese ships. Eight hits were placed on four Japanese ships, one destroyer and two cargo ships. One of the Buffaloes was shot down.

On 24 January the Buffaloes shot two Japanese air scouts.

24th January the Japanese found the Samarinda II air base on this day. They air base placed on east- Borneo was attacked by several Navy-Zeros. Five Buffaloes welcomed them. Two Zeroes were shot down, the pilots killed.

21st February 12 Buffaloes went in to a fight with 24 Navy-Zeros. During this fight both sides lost two planes. The B-3122 flown by Sgt. van Dalen was lost above Tjiater.

On 1 March the five Buffaloes together with eight P-40's and seven Dutch Hurricanes took off. The Buffaloes were under the command of Lt. de Haas and got to the landing troops first. There were 44 cargo ships in front of the coast, together with hundreds of small landing crafts. The Buffaloes attacked immediately and surprised them completely. They shot until they were out of ammo. When the Japanese attacked Ngoro air base all the airplanes were damaged so badly that they had to be destroyed. Also the Buffaloes...

There were only four Dutch Buffaloes left. Capt. van Helsdingen used them in a last assault at the Japanese in the Tjiaterfortress to support the ground troops near Kembang. The pilots were van Helsdingen, Deibel, Scheffer and Bruggink. Van Helsdingen and Bruggink flew about 200 m. below the other two planes who had to cover the other two planes. Above Lembang they met a Japanese fighter who was attacked by Deibel and disappeared. Some time later they saw three Navy-Zeros. Deibel shot at two planes which turned away. Deibel himself was shot in his oil tank. He dived into a valley and succeeded to escape from the attackers. Flying very low he reached Andir. He landed in a tropical rainstorm. One of the wheels, damaged during the fight ran away from the aircraft so it crashed in a "ground loop". Scheffer landed a minute later. Van Helsdingen and Bruggink were attacked by six Navy-Zeros. Capt. van Helsdingen was shot down and killed. Bruggink managed to escape into a cloud and in a long way back to Andir air base.

This was the last action made by the KNIL against a Japanese "overkill" All four of these last pilots were rewarded with the Militaire Willemsorde (highest Dutch decoration, only given for extreme high bravery during wartime).

BlauK · « **Reply #218 on:** January 10, 2003, 02:23:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
BNM correction in order i believe.

The leading Finnish ace was Air Master Sergeant Ilmari "ILLU" Juutilainen 94 kills awarded Knight of Mannerhein Cross twice.

Second was Captain Hans "Hasse" Wind 75 kills awarded KMC twice.

And third was Major Eino "Eikka" Luukkanen 56 kills awarded KMC once.

Hi Cav

Actually you both are correct.
The leading FAF ace was Eino Ilmari Juutilainen. His name is often written with his first forename even though he used the second forename himself. So Eino Juutilainen and Ilmari Juutilainen are the same person... "Illu"

Quote

Originally posted by Grendel
The bad reputation of Brewster "Buffalo" mainly stems from the green American pilots in Midway, who got slaughtered trying to turn against the far more nimbler Zeroes. Just bad tactics, not a bad plane.

Grendel,
honestly the Dutch B-339 was not as good fighter plane as the FAF B-239 was. But you still have a point there

Grendel · « **Reply #219 on:** January 10, 2003, 02:40:57 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BlauK

Grendel,
honestly the Dutch B-339 was not as good fighter plane as the FAF B-239 was. But you still have a point there

And they still managed a 1:1 exchange against the Japanese in the supposedly "worst fighter of WW2".

Which, with the studies of American performance and tactics at Midway, proves that it was not the plane - but the pilots and tactics.

illo · « **Reply #220 on:** January 12, 2003, 07:24:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by whgates3
was it the enemy they were up against (Buffalo has speed advantage against I-16, but not against Zero

Remember that Brewsters were also against (and scoring kills of) La-5FNs, Yak-9s and P-39q s.

Xjazz · « **Reply #221 on:** January 13, 2003, 02:09:29 AM »

!PUNT!

brady · « **Reply #222 on:** January 13, 2003, 02:58:19 AM »

Why is punting in bad taste?

I must admit, instead of starting like a million different threads on different Japanese or italian or Russian or American ect , planes I wanted I gues I could of made like one for each country and punted the holy living (*&$&^$#&^%) out of it....

Is that What was ment?

A Nice Dutch Brwester would be Great for the East Indies Map I want to get made for the CT.( Basicaly Indionishia today)

whgates3 · « **Reply #223 on:** January 13, 2003, 10:34:44 AM »

just do what mitsu does w/ Emily thread: post a new pic or tidbit of info once a week. much more effective than the blatant punt

frank3 · « **Reply #224 on:** January 13, 2003, 11:40:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by M.C.202
ra said:
That guy shot down 3 of 5 Zeros before getting shot down, and he says 'if only I'd had a Buffalo'. Talk about high self-esteem.
END QUOTE

You can always tell a Naval Aviator... You just can't tell them much:D

hey, do you know anyone named Claire? cause se loves the MC.202/205 and I really wanna talk to her again...