apples to oranges

[Yeager]

If a system is created that prevents me from flying with my squadronmates I will be pissed!

Other than that I could care less what anyone does.

Yeager

[Mox]

 

Originally posted by Yeager:
If a system is created that prevents me from flying with my squadronmates I will be pissed!

Yeager

I'm sure this is one thing we all agree on!

Mox

[Moose11]

Mox,

Personally, if I did not have the option to fly whatever damn country I wanted to at any given time (barring side switches within 12 hous) my money would go elseware and a lot of others would follow. You've mentioned this idea in other threads and I'm not saying it'll work or not, I'm just stating that you won't be seeing your average moose anymore.

Same goes for any 'perks' for being on one side/switching to another. Any restraint on who I personally choose to fly with and *poof*, cya.

As for the bonus for a gangbanged side? Sure - but the best way to do it would be to make perk planes cheaper. Otherwise people will switch over, grab the points, and log. (then switch back in 12 hours)

Hey lazs, let me get this straight. You hate a historical matchup. You hate fighting a plane worse or better then yours. You hate the perk system because it promotes better planes.

Soo... in your perfect sim, would we all be flying Hawgs with fields that couldn't be closed?  

What *you* enjoy might not exactly be what everyone else wants.

[Fidd]

You are wrong. In fact you are so wrong I'm not even going to add "IMHO". I can recall a trial war-weekend on AW3 where we ran the arena circa 1941 across the English channel. Loads of players signed up as Jerries to fly the fw190(a3), in the certain knowledge that it was better than the Spit V. My Squad flew Spit V's. What surprised all of us, including the Jerry players, was that an intelligently flown *squadron* of Spit V's shat all over the Fw's - in a large combat.

So... I find historical matchups *far* from dull, and frequently surprising!

Fidd

 

Originally posted by lazs:

Historical matchups are lopsided and boring.  They limit plane choice and the variety of fights is cut to allmost nothing.   Sure you can come up with ways to "force" balance and add even more animosity but you can't do anything about the obvious.... Historical matchups are dull, vanilla ones.  Even the slowest witted among us learns the 3 moves required in Historical matchups.
lazs

[lazs]

unless you fly a (choke) "historical" squad with all that entails... your squad will indeed be broken up by a historical arena.  All the fun squads like MOL, BK's etc. left WB because we couldn't fly the planes we wanted to unless we flew against each other.  Plus... Historical matchups are for the brain ded, lazy or skilless or... simply hidebound Walter Mitties.  The fights are so boring and same same that you give up far more than you ever gain.

Now, there may be ways to "balance" out the numbers or the parity of opponents by using draconian methods bordering on ex soviet bloc but.... you can never make the fights interesting and varied.   I flew in some of The most balanced days in both numbers and  parity of plane set and... Even on those days.... the fights were unvaried and ho hum after a short time.   I mean.... your in a spit.... you see a 109.... Gee I wonder what he will do THIS time?   The same friggin move as he did the last 3 dozen times?
lazs

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by Moose11:
As for the bonus for a gangbanged side? Sure - but the best way to do it would be to make perk planes cheaper. Otherwise people will switch over, grab the points, and log. (then switch back in 12 hours)

Well how about a percentage bonus/penalty on your total mission perk points based on whether your country has larger numbers or smaller numbers than the other countries?  This way, no bonus points are awarded unless they actually FLY for the outnumbered team.

This doesnt do anything for true gangbanging which is going to be difficult to address but it does address arena imbalances which has become quite a problem.

-Ding

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by lazs:
<snip major negativity>

Goodbye Laz!  

-Ding

[Westy]

 With my piece said to Sky bax and with Mox and I understand each others pov better - my strong rrmaek to him was on the basis of the other three topics discussing this same subject I'm out of this one.  Lazs, I've agreed with you ALOT in the furnball vs the Armchair Napoleon discussions but you've taking this topic to a personal level that I don't want to be involved with it anymore.  

Good luck. May the best idea(s) win.

  -Westy

[CRASH]

MA is driven by points mentality, thats why people change sides to gang bang the other side..plain and simple.  2 sided historical arena will 1. instill a sense of loyalty into people and make them less likely to switch sides for point purposes. 2. We have a large luftwobble community that i'm sure will fly axis most of the time just as I will surely fly Allied most of the time as well as the multitude of british pilots we have.  3.I wanna know what it was like and this is as close as I'm ever gonna get.  I've flown these mmog's since aw dos and I've been in plenty of scenarios, but they are few and far between and myself as well as many people here would like to have a crack at more historical matchups and settings.  
     I'm not saying change the ma into a wwii arena all of the time, but how bout 1 week a month alternating europe 1 month and pac another.
    Now people start to whine about some of us forcing them to fly our way...that logic's a crock of toejam because as it is now we all have to fly a free for all ma populated by a bunch of ho'ing laser chogs.  I aint sayin' we should change it permantly, but hey, give the rest of us a shot at playin' a 2 sided more historical wwii setup...it's only fair.
     As an aside,... now, I dont know bout all of you, but for me the ma can get damn boring after awhile and if it wasnt for the frequent updates I prolly would have stopped logging on long ago.  2 sided wwii setups are also a good way to keep things interesting if done on a time frame of say 1 week a month.  Like some of the other guys have mentioned a full time limited plane set wwii setup would get a bit confining after awhile.  But, again, it's time for the historical crowd to have a chance at flyin' the way we'd like...it's only fair.

CRASH

[This message has been edited by CRASH (edited 03-13-2001).]

[lazs]

moose... how do you get that I only want an arena with all uncaptuarable fields and only the hog available?   Either you have not read anything I have ever written and so you are talking out of your butt or..... you have read what I have written but are just to stupid to comprehend or.... you have read and comprehended what i have written but you are (ahem) "intentionally missrepresenting" it.   Perhaps there is another explanation?  At this point..I can only assume that your handle was aptly chosen.

I believe that ther is a large chunk of planes with differing abilities that are equally capable.   We actually had this in 1.05   What I want and have allways said is.... the most choice and parity along with the very best FM's and gunnery.   When you add planes of obvious superior abilities into a "fair" arena you skew things.   Perk won't make that better just less obvious.   I would like the (viable) choice of flying early war planes unmolested by far superior late planes.  I would like for what passes as "strat" in this game to have not quite so drastic affect on the fighter game and the casual "fun" player.    "you cannot take off from this field" or you can only take 25% fuel" are not messages that a lot of people like to get if they are not interested in participating in the "strat" portion.  Likewise, being forced to fly only planes of either allied or axis against only those of allied or axis, does not appeal especially during the more lopsided "historical" eras.   some enjoy the "ebb and flow".  Others do not.
lazs

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by lazs:
  We actually had this in 1.05   What I want and have allways said is.... the most choice and parity along with the very best FM's and gunnery.   When you add planes of obvious superior abilities into a "fair" arena you skew things.   Perk won't make that better just less obvious.

Lasz, the way I read this, you seem to contradict yourself.  First you ask for the most choice and then you want parity by restricting the planes which fly in the arena.  It seems you do not want perk planes because they skew the arena, yet I have yet to see this.  As a matter of fact, I think perk planes are enemy magnets.  I have not seen perk planes molesting the arena mercilessly and I havent seen people who used to fly the C.202 or Zeke stop.

In truth, I have yet to see the so called perk planes dominate the arena as it has been predicted.

I like the perks.

-Ding

[easymo]

 As a nik dweeb, my fears have been put to rest. You still have to fly the things. In the hands of a lot of people, there not that perky.  I won a turn fight with a 202 last night. I was in a Tempest at the time.

 I have had 10 kill sorti,s in my nik.
All were perk planes.

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 03-13-2001).]

[lazs]

dingy... i don't see the contradiction.   1.06 released about 4 new planes that have shifted the arena to a very late war focus.  adding those four planes has made the bottom 10 not viable.   using the "perk" system masks this somewhat but the fact remains that even if you are someone who likes the bottom ten planes and are good in em... you have a 2-3 times better chance for survival if you simply click on one of the more capable new planes.   These bottom ten didn't have as bad a K/D ratio before and planes like the spit are relegated to meat on the table.   soo...

The new planes have made for less choice plus... they make it very difficult to add early war planes.  there are many early war rides that would be fun and have parity with each other but the shift is away from them and into the very narrow late war focus.   perk cannot fix this.
lazs

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by lazs:
dingy... i don't see the contradiction.   1.06 released about 4 new planes that have shifted the arena to a very late war focus.  adding those four planes has made the bottom 10 not viable.   using the "perk" system masks this somewhat but the fact remains that even if you are someone who likes the bottom ten planes and are good in em... you have a 2-3 times better chance for survival if you simply click on one of the more capable new planes.   These bottom ten didn't have as bad a K/D ratio before and planes like the spit are relegated to meat on the table.   soo...

The new planes have made for less choice plus... they make it very difficult to add early war planes.  there are many early war rides that would be fun and have parity with each other but the shift is away from them and into the very narrow late war focus.   perk cannot fix this.
lazs

The perks are only slightly more powerful than the late war monsters like the 109G10, P51D, F4U1-C, Nik that were already in the game.  Put a Tempest at a slight altitude disadvantage to a P51B and odds are it will die.  The Ta152 can climb to outrageous alts but it still has to come down to fite.

I will agree that its difficult for a Bf109f or a C.202 to survive in the arena now but it was difficult to survive in one of those before the new release.  

My point is that the shift to the late war planes occured well before this release.  As such, the new perk planes and other late war planes like the Dora and La7 add more variety in the late war fite.

Now quit being a malcontent.

-Ding

[lazs]

ding... exactly... Thanks for proving my point.   There will allways be "some" emphisis on the best/latest planes in an arena.  Now that there is some competition for the late war planes..... they are all that is really viable.  

If, By "quit being a malcontent" u mean "stop complaining that the gameplay has shifted to very late war only and cut the bottom out of the plane set while destroying any chance of gettin new early war planes"  then my answer is.....No.
lazs