Lethality (cont): A Question

[Taiaha]

My question is slightly different to that being discussed in the other thread (whether or not to turn down lethality in MA) so I'm posting a new thread.  I actually just want to know how lethality works.

From what people have said so far, it seems as if what many people lump into the category of "lethality" actually has several components.

1)  Round weight and trajectory (bullet drop, etc.)
2)  Impact damage
3)  Passage damage (rounds passing through to other components, etc,)
4)  Component modelling (toughness, etc., hence the discussions about glass radiators on Yak and Tiffie, and glass tail on P47)
5)  Damage envelope or bubble

(am I missing anything?)

A couple people mentioned that lethality is modelled the way it is in AH to enable it to be adjusted for various scenarios and arenas (e.g. the training arena).  My question is simply, how is it adjusted?  Is there a global adjustment that affects all of these things, or does the adjustment only refer to impact damage, etc.?

[Ripsnort]

Here's a thread that has Hitech and Pyro replies in it..maybe you can find some nuggets to your inquest here:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=23837&referrerid=3203

[Taiaha]

Thanks for the link, Ripsnort.  I thought Pyro's post about the difference between trying to model real world physics and real world historical results was really interesting.  His point about equating the gunnery experience of newbies in AH to that of RL WWII pilots made a lot of sense to me (my first few tours I certainly wasn't knocking them down with any great frequency!)--with the qualification that even many newbies to AH have had a lot of hours in single-player sims, etc.

But it didn't answer my question about how lethality is adjusted, which was a genuine question, not an attempt to revisit the "turn down the lethality" thing.  I like this sim a lot, and just want to understand more about how it works.

[RDSaustinTX]

Man I haven't come in here in years, but SOMETHING is going on in MW. I watched 30 panzer rounds bounce off a T-34. Then drop 2 4k bombs on a tiger and it doesn't die. Then a hurri kills MY t34 with 20's, no prob. Then we put about 20K on a cv and it would not die. Hmmm. This is different.
 
Wierd things like around certain pilots (on both opposing sides) my FE will switch to short range view.
 
I dunno what's going on but this sucks. The rumor is that HT messed with country lethality to stop whining. Fat plowin chance. IF we are adjusting lethality to "balance" game play, that is completely stupid and doomed to failure.
 
I'm gonna read around, but if that's what's going on, we're out.
 
Mullah

[thndregg]

Man I haven't come in here in years

but the BBS rules are the same.

[RipChord929]

Here's a thread that has Hitech and Pyro replies in it..maybe you can find some nuggets to your inquest here:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=23837&referrerid=3203

Just to let ya know, I clicked on your posted link, it said "page not found".....

RC

[thndregg]

Just to let ya know, I clicked on your posted link, it said "page not found".....

RC

Check the date of this thread, and you will know why.
May 06, 2002

[Ack-Ack]

Man I haven't come in here in years, but SOMETHING is going on in MW. I watched 30 panzer rounds bounce off a T-34. Then drop 2 4k bombs on a tiger and it doesn't die. Then a hurri kills MY t34 with 20's, no prob. Then we put about 20K on a cv and it would not die. Hmmm. This is different.
 
Wierd things like around certain pilots (on both opposing sides) my FE will switch to short range view.
 
I dunno what's going on but this sucks. The rumor is that HT messed with country lethality to stop whining. Fat mistin chance. IF we are adjusting lethality to "balance" game play, that is completely stupid and doomed to failure.
 
I'm gonna read around, but if that's what's going on, we're out.
 
Mullah

ack-ack

[RipChord929]

WOW, I never figured that posts or threads would be kept THAT long....
Holy smokes
I'll watch that next time..
Seems like somebody need to clean out the closet....

Thx RC

[SD67]

Threads are kept so folks can reference or research them before they post questions.
They are not supposed to dig up the skeletal remains and make them walk again though.
This will be locked soon enough.

[1pLUs44]

[hijack]RDSaustin, I like your avatar [/hijack]

[Redlegs]

[RipChord929]

I think mullah is asking a valid question tho...
I've been noticing severe inconsistancies in the game lately...
Things that just don't make sense...

I've flown with him, he's not prone to outbursts or arrogant garbage on 200...
Good player, rock steady....

Other threads are appearing, like "indestructable panzer" in the bugs forum..
Or the debate in "Mighty Tiger" in this forum... just today!!!

If this is a bug, its causing major havoc in the player base...
Accusations of cheating, major hate and discontent among the players...

Some good ppl have quit over this already... NOT a good thing...

If lethality of armament is being used to equalize gameplay in
the same way as ENY, and players were not informed... Just WOW
I'm speechless!!!   But it would explain alot of oddities that are occurring...

Now I'm wondering???

RC

[RDSaustinTX]

Sorry I woke some of you up. I just searched "lethality" and "balance" and dove in. At least a moderator got to feel important.
 
SOMETHING is going on. Dropped a rack of bombs on a cv today. Perfect calibration on a ship going straight. No splashes. Nothing. Yesterday the bombs hit over and over but the ship would not sink. I took jabos and bommers until bedtime. That's a change.
 
The FE flipping to short range view is so CONSISTENT with a couple of enemy players now that I can tell who/where they are just by getting close. That's a change.
 
We got a zoom-climbing A-20 that out-turns anything in MW now. Last week I watched an f4u out-turn EIGHT consecutive planes (zeeks, hurris and f4fs) in flat turnfights. I know the basic GV model is bad, but a T-34 surviving 30 panzer hits (while three planes are also hammering away)? That's a change.
 
It's possible (if not likely) there are some hacks. HTC can't tell if somebody is shifting packets on purpose. Aimbots are invisible to the host. I know guys who will decompile anything just to see if they can.
 
But hacks are different from the mothership messing with the code. That should be sacrosanct.
 
Some of this just reeks of host manipulation or a whoppin bug. One of the unkillable tigers yesterday was in a factory. That's a noob target (since supply logistics have been abandoned in favor of "balance"). If I hacked my FE it would not be to shoot a factory.
 
I have been playing online flight sims longer than most of ya, hell longer than HT has (ask Dale), and the ebb and flow between three countries has always been. Country A will dominate a while, then C takes over, then B gets a turn in an endless progression. It is self-equilibriating.
 
HT does a much better job of flight modeling than error checking or behavioral modification. Making fields unporkable and unsneakable was a silly change to fix a non-problem. ENY is a silly change to fix a non-problem. No way shifting lethality is out of bounds with this mindset. They tend to twist every knob they can, even to fix non-problems.
 
All I know is what I hear, which is not very reliable. It's a given that some players (notably noobs) are CONSTANTLY whining about country balance. That's a shibboleth, but HT has undeniably responded to it before at the expense of the overall sim.
 
So just tell me it's not happening HTC. Then I can argue with the rumor-mongers, put my tinfoil hat away and ignore the BB for another couple years. The moderators in these things are always [domestic cats] anyway.
 
  Mullah
 

[CAP1]

Man I haven't come in here in years, but SOMETHING is going on in MW. I watched 30 panzer rounds bounce off a T-34. Then drop 2 4k bombs on a tiger and it doesn't die. Then a hurri kills MY t34 with 20's, no prob. Then we put about 20K on a cv and it would not die. Hmmm. This is different.if they were bouncing off, they were probably long range, and glancing off the armor.
 the hurri didn't kill you..you probably were killed by another gv, but the hurri dumped all his ammo into you, giving him the kill. or it could've been a hurri2d, with the 40mm(i think?)

 as for the carrier, you more than likely missed. i drop cv's in ju88's with the 4 500kg eggs.
 
Wierd things like around certain pilots (on both opposing sides) my FE will switch to short range view.
 
I dunno what's going on but this sucks. The rumor is that HT messed with country lethality to stop whining. Fat mistin chance. IF we are adjusting lethality to "balance" game play, that is completely stupid and doomed to failure.
 
I'm gonna read around, but if that's what's going on, we're out.
 
Mullah