Neo Nazis and the Holocaust

[Angus]

I have just been shaking my head about the growing number of people that firmly belive that the whole jew massacre business was just a big fake. Well, there is strong propaganda about it from neo-nazi organisations, and while the distance in time increases and less people are alive that remember it, it may only be natural for the young and ignorant to fall for it.
I saw something in the newspaper the other day that triggered me to write this. It regarded the myth of various objects being manufactured from the remains of slaugtered jews, such as wallets, lampscreens and the famous "soap".
Here you go:

[Angus]

So, this is a wallet made out of human skin.
The story of the object is as follows.
Late in the war, a group of Gestapo men were captured by polish partisans. One of the officers threw an object away from him, but it was spotted and caught by one of the partisans. That was this wallet. The text reads: Cigarettentasche aus echten menchenleder. (Cigarette case made of real human skin).
Resent forensics (spelling?) confirmed it is authentic!

[Curval]

Sick stuff....

I hope the human race never forgets.

[babek-]

It is said (and I fear its true) that Himmler had a room where the complete inventory was made by human things - like chairs of bones and so on.

But the Nazis were not the first who "enjoyed" these perversities and I fear that they are not the last.

There are many cultures of history which are respected as improtant high-cultures who have done similiar cruel perversities.

Only to take the skinning-example:

The Babylonian and Assyrian foot archers used human skin for their bowcases  they often cut off and skinned the arm of a victim and used this with the fingers still hanging at the end of the bowcase.

And if I remember right US officials paid money for the delivery of a scalp of an indian. If I dont lost my anatomical knowledge the scalp of a human being is also some kind of skin...

I know that there are people who claim that there havent been concentration camps in Germany or that not so many people died there. I never understood these people - it is a historical fact that these camps existed and its not important for me if 1 or 5 or 10 millions have been killed inside these camps. Even if only 1 person have been killed inside such an installation it would become a place of perversity.

Its also a fact that the concentration-camps were not an invention by the Nazi Germans but first used a century before by the British in their war against the Bures in South-Africa.

And even after WW2 there have been concentration camps throughout the world. Its not necessary to have gas-chambers and crematories to keep such pervert and shameful places running.

So : We should try to remember all these dark places and events of human history.
Its sad that there is not a single nation or culture in this world which had not been involved in crimes and barbarism during its history.

And after we thought about what humans were and are able to do to other humans because of stupid definitions or fanatism we maybe should look what is happening today and in the future.

We cant change the past - but at least we should try not to ignore what happens today throughout the world.

Not only the Neo-Nazis are denying perversities which had happened in human history...

[midnight Target]

Heard this analogy on Dennis Miller's show the other day(I paraphrase badly):

Free speech is like a playground full of kids. The only way to find out who is the wimp is to let everyone play. When the neo-nazi kids and KKK kids get there butts kicked in the public playground enough it will be apparent which are the strong ideas, and which are the weak wimps.

[Curval]

Babek,

I think you mean the Boers...and in fact many of them were shipped to Bermuda as POWs.  They were not put into anything like the Concentration Camps that were built  by the Germans in WW2 while they were here.

That is not to say that the Brits allowed the Boers to sip Pina-Coladas on the beach, or anything....they were put to work.  But not worked to death like slaves.  Quite a few died while in captivity, but that was due to Yellow Fever outbreaks that killed a comparative number of British soldiers who were guarding them.

What you say though, for the most part, is true.  There have been many examples in history of this type of behaviour.  That does not mean that we can put it down to a "detail of history" to paraphrase Mr. Le Pen.

As soon as you start to trivialise what happened in WW2 by claiming that it was done before and "why are you making a big deal of it now" you start to walk a dangerous path for the future.

[Dowding]

Its also a fact that the concentration-camps were not an invention by the Nazi Germans but first used a century before by the British in their war against the Bures in South-Africa.

Wrong. They weren't 'death' camps - they weren't used for the sole purpose of exterminating a race or group of people.

They were refugee camps or 'concentration' camps in the literal sense of the word - the Boer civilian population was forced to live in the camps, after a scorched earth policy was used to put pressure on the Boer armed forces operating in the field against the British. Disease and lack of food killed thousands, however.

There was a lot of controversy back in Britain at the time, regarding the high death rates. Eventually, there was such an outcry that something was done and the death rates were brought down to levels lower than those in major British cities.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Dowding


Wrong. They weren't 'death' camps - they weren't used for the sole purpose of exterminating a race or group of people.

They were refugee camps or 'concentration' camps in the literal sense of the word - the Boer civilian population was forced to live in the camps, after a scorched earth policy was used to put pressure on the Boer armed forces operating in the field against the British. Disease and lack of food killed thousands, however.

There was a lot of controversy back in Britain at the time, regarding the high death rates. Eventually, there was such an outcry that something was done and the death rates were brought down to levels lower than those in major British cities.

So basically, the Nazi's were more humane about it than the British with the Boers, the latter choosing a slow but certain death.

[babek-]

@Curval

Right - I meant the Boers - sorry for my bad English but it is was not the 1st or 2nd foreign language I learned so I could not express some points out in a proper way.

I saw in the last year a report of Discovery (if I remember right) and it was there discribed by a british historical scientist that the British had camps in South Africa where females and children of the Boers were held.
These camps were called concentration camps and the food for the people inside was reduced systematicly - so the people inside suffered and especially many children died. This was used to  force the Boers (who were fighting with their succesful hit-and-run-tactic) to surrender.

If you now prove that this report is a total nonsense, I will accept this.

What I want to show was the fact that humans have done crimes all time - and this could not be denied.

Its a really sad fact that even we, the people of the new millenia,  - after 1000nds of years of civilisation and history - still have such crimes in our times.

I have never trivilized historical crimes but I also cant accept that the focus is only on one detail.
There is an horrendreous amount of crimes which humans have done to others.

I am sad about ALL these things which happened - and I am much more sad about the fact that I have to accept that humans obviously never change.

Throughout our whole history we have made crimes. The technical advance and civilisation doesnt made us to stop these things - instead we used the technical advantages to perfect the death machines.
For me the Babylonian who is skinning a human victim with his primitive knife is the same barbarian as the 20th century SS-man who does the same with a scalpell.

And this is the true sad thing: I fear that we humans will never change - so the sentence "Lets hope that this will never happen again" is only a hopeless statement:
The fact is that it HAS happened again.

Just look at the crimes of Pol Pot - he and his Red Khmer/Khmer Rouge have installed concentration camps throughout his country until he was stopped.

Its really sad fact, but I think its the way we humans treat each other.
As long as we could not respect all of us as equal we will continue this path - and its in our nature to try to be superior to others and so have a lesser respect for a part of the human society.

And this part becomes a target for attacks which could degenerate to perversities we have had to see during the Nazi reign.

Again I have to apologize for my bad English but I hope you could read out what I mean.

[Dowding]

There was democratic debate about the British forces conduct which led to improvements.

I don't think the Nazis were partial to that type of thing.

Surprisingly, Ripsnort, it was the liberals who were attacking the government's position on the camps.

The motivation behind it was pretty disgraceful, but I think it was of militaristic, rather than ideological or racial, intent.

I think out of 200,000 'refugees' some 30,000 died.

Death rates were eventually reduced to be comparable with cities like Glasgow, if I remember rightly.

[Curval]

Babek...don't sweat the English thing...I speak one language...English....I admire those who have the capacity for more.

I will defer to Dowding on this one...my knowledge is limited to the Boers that were brought here.  I don't know enough about the "camps" in South Africa, to be fair.

[Angus]

Well then, Boer camps or no Boer camps, I think (and hope) that there were never camps anywhere in the magnitude of the Nazi extermination camps.
I have been to Dachau, which was "just" a concentration camp. It is just HUGE. I have also been to Auswitch and Birkenau. Now Birkenau (often referred to as Auswitch II) is the one that tops it, it is simply GIGANTIC. Total area is about 1,7 square km, full of huts, each and every stuffed to the ceiling with people, and those were just the people who were intended as work labour until they could be used no more.
And then there were so many other camps.
I just think it is so striking to hear people say it is a fake. Or that this or that before or after WW2 is completely comparable.
Actually, I think nobody ever even got close the the Nazis. The whole business was about to eliminate approx 11 million people leaving hardly a trace. The camps were not built to last, and some had alrerady disappeared before the end of the war.
It was all planned to detail and supposed to go on in secrecy without the rest of the world spotting it.
And it almost worked to the full extent. There are hardly no jews left in Europe at all. Just Jewish semetaries, rotting down and full of weeds for there is no one there to look after them.
There may have been massacres to millions going on in the world, as well as tyranny leading to hunger and so, some of wich even managed to reach the death numbers of the holocaust. I just think we can't overlook the way in which the Holocaust was carried out, and what that should tell us.

[Eaglecz]

Originally posted by Dowding


Wrong. They weren't 'death' camps - they weren't used for the sole purpose of exterminating a race or group of people.

wow where are you from ?? moon ?

you bloody idiot those "camps" are still here, wish you to see some movies from these days , you can visit them any time
just come to Poland, Czech

and if you are looking for some new, then visit Russia

[Masherbrum]

What about the Turks and Armenians?  Mankind will never be satisfied until it destroys itself.  You will always have this perverse behavior.  It makes you sick.

Jay

[batdog]

Orel...He's talking about the Brit camps used in South Africa during the Boar wars. NOT about the Nazi concentration camps used in WW2.


 xBAT