Why does the F4U turn so poorly?

[BotaBing]

Ive never flown another WWII sim, so Im just wondering what it is about the f4u that makes it such a horrible dog fighter?

Unless Im using it to vulch, to jabo, or there is no choice but to fly from a CV, I have gotten to the point of just not using it anymore.

I can almost never win a dogfight in that plane, it stalls constantly, has a horrible turn rate, most other planes can outfly it, it seems.

Can someone point me to some information about the plane, maybe something that can help me understand why it flys like such a brick?

[AKSWulfe]

One or two notches of flaps will help it turn and lower the stall/spin speed.

The F4U is one of the best "button" planes in the game... by that I mean it can do a whole helluva lot with the push of a button.

Drop a notch or two of flaps to get that extra boost in a turn for a second or two to pull that extra inch of lead... or drop your gear and slow down from 300MPH to 250MPH in a matter of seconds.

Plus it's got the great forward view....

It'll easily beat most of the planes when flown properly.
-SW

[cajun]

F4u takes allotta practice to get good at but it is a VERY good plane once you get use to it, Its my favorite plane and has been since the first day I started AH (with A6m in a close 2nd)

Its very fast compared to most other planes, you cant turn fight against a zero or spit in it, you have to use youre speed at your advantage, get as much alt as possible then dive on your enemy (right before you dive cut engine and lower flaps if your enemy is a long way down, dont want to pass him up)

And when somethin gets on your tail just point the nose down and put it in full throttle, almost nothing will be able to catch ya

[Curval]

Yup,  these guys are right.

If you are fast it turns really well.

If you are slow, drop flaps a notch and you can turn sharper than most others pilots expect you to....you end up with alot of manouver kills if done right.

[BotaBing]

I really appreciate all this information. The F4U is easily my favorite plane from WWII, but ive had such trouble flying it compared to NIK or Spit IX its been a bummer.

[Vermillion]

Botabing, the Corsair is a boom & zomm fighter or at best a conservative vertical E fighter, its nothing like the style of a Niki or Spit.

Stay high, stay fast, and only turn when you HAVE too, and this bird will SHINE!

[Zippatuh]

Short answer:  It wasn’t made to turn.

Long answer:  Basically what Verm stated.  Low and slow is no place to be for a hog.  Keep your speed up, have an altitude advantage, resist turning and burning to much E, and remember to roll!

Roll baby roll baby roll!  The hog can roll better than just about any other aircraft in AH.  Get comfortable using scissors both vertical and horizontal, but most of all be patient.  Something that I myself have been lacking this tour.  If you have to change direction quick, use low or hi yo-yo’s to do it.

[AKEagle+]

My $.02 on Hog Driving

The concept of hit and run, or "a drive by shooting" seems very unsporstmanlike to many people. Yet that is Exactly what Boom and Zoom fighting is all about.  Keep your speed up, take the shot, and disengage while you are still in a high E state.  

Energy is Life.  Your energy depends on speed and alt.  Speed is kinetic energy and height is potential energy.

You lose kinetic energy in three ways,

1 you trade it for alt, (Zoom)

2 you trade it for angles, (This is exactly what the angles fighters want you to do)

3. and you lose it to drag.

So the F4U is simple, stay in a high E State at all times.  That is the great strength of the Hog.  It really retains energy well.

The great weakness of the Hog is that it turns well at speed.  Thus it is tempting to try and saddle up on a bogeys 6 and turn with him.  You can turn with darn near anything for about 3/4 of a turn.  

So you turn your E into Angles, drop flaps, and take 1 turn to get that bogey on your 12, you have went from a high e state killing machine to a low slow target.  The NIK or Spit on your six blows you to bits.  [Then some get on the BBS and whine about Spit Dweebs! LOL !]

To many people never get past the concept that many of us come into fighter sims with.  That concept (from movies and ignorance) is that dog fighting is an aerobatic dance of death between two scarf wearing chivalrous Knights of the Air.  

Well, if you REALLY want realism, dog fighting was and is a mean, vicious, no holds barred, attack and live, or run and live, affair.  

Read Robert Shaws "Fighter Combat", there is nothing in there about being chivalrous or sportsmanship.

Keep that F4U over 300 in a fight, and you will kill, and will survive most fights.

My $.02 anyways, you do have the right to be wrong!

AKEagle+

[Lephturn]

The hog is, and always has been, a premier E fighter.

That's not to say only a BnZ fighter... it can do better than that.  I mean that it can hold E very well using proper techniques.  It has a decent gun package, and good instantaneous turn at high speed to make those deflection shots.  AKEagle is right... it's all about maintaining an E advantage in this bird.  The positive is that it can dive very well and is quite fast, so when you get in trouble you can often get out of it by pointing the nose down and hitting WEP.

What F4U model are you flying?  How much fuel are you loading?  Especially the F4U-1 has large fuel tanks, and talking 75% in that bird will make you HEAVY.  A hog on low fuel will turn pretty damn well IMO... ok it isn't a Spit, but it's not too bad a turner.

[Tac]

"but ive had such trouble flying it compared to NIK or Spit IX its been a bummer"

gee I wonder why that would be?  

The F4U is only good if you above 300mph. Below that you'd better have alt to dive away or pray you facing something that turns worse than you do. Its got excellent high speed handling, only the P-51 can beat it at high speeds.

Keep it fast, keep 8k alt below you at all times, dont turn more than 1/4th of a circle in it.

The F4U is also an excellent rolling sciscors ride. Only the P-38 and the turnfighters (n1k,spit,zeke) can follow it in sciscors. The F4U's great diving ability plus its E-bleed on demand capability (ever sciscored an f4u and suddenly see it pull behind you just by lowering gear? Geeezus!)

[F4UDOA]

Actually a well flown F4U can out turn a Spit.

Crazy you say?

Well without going into great detail here are three important factors in defeating a Spitfire with an F4U.

1. The Spitfire has a better sustained turn rate.

2. The F4U has a BETTER instantanious turn rate.

3. The F4U is faster at all alts up until about 28K.

What does this mean?

As long you stay faster than the Spit you should never loose.  As soon as the F4U looses his speed advantage disengage and try again.

Here is a link for a "how to" on how to defeat the Spit with an F4U by BadBoy. It is old and based on Air Warrior but the same principles apply. The only advantage in AH the Spit has is the harder punch of the cannon.

 ACM download Zipfile

[fdiron]

In the F4U, your main advantage is the ability to stay faster or higher than your opponent.  This means you should make diving attacks upon your target.  Never burn off too much energy as to allow your target to latch onto you.

The F4U-1 is has a maximum speed of 409mph at 19,000 feet.

[poopster]

The hardest thing to learn is patience. I fly a 190 and the same formula applies.

The cup of coffee rule:

Get to a situation whether the choice is to bleed out to continue or extend ??

Grab that cup of coffee, or beer in my case and move on.

Now if I could only follow that advise.....

[ZeroPing]

I suggest trying this with a group of people (3 or 4)

Come in at about 5k more (over a furball) and ZnB them to death, Each F4U diving after another u will keep them low and will keep them slow ;)till one of ya gets a lucky shot (or skillful)
BTW i have turned fight with a spit II before and killed him and lived. i was on full flaps tho hehe

[SirLoin]

Ask AKNimitz for a few rounds in the practice arena.I guarantee you'll learn a thing or two about flaps and that "drop the gear" trick...