Author Topic: the germans had the first stealth fighter!  (Read 500 times)

Offline WidoSlyr

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« on: May 09, 2002, 02:48:59 AM »
I got the internet address if anyone wants info on it.  Its pretty interesting.  It should be the next perk plane.

http://www.hotel.wineasy.se/ipms/stuff_eng_detail_hoix.htm

Offline fdiron

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2002, 02:58:42 AM »
Flying Wings suffered directional and stability problems until the advent of fly-by-wire systems.  I imagine the HO 229 would have suffered from the same problem.

Offline illo

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2002, 05:07:27 AM »
http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Horten_Nurflugels/horten_nurflugels.html


I hope HTC gets all those more WW2 relevant planes before this one. Yes it did fly and yes it had contract for production, but it never ever saw combat. It's very interesting plane, yes. But doesn't belong to AH.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2002, 05:10:40 AM by illo »

Offline Mitsu

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2002, 05:26:23 AM »
It's never shown on the radar bar and dot! :eek:

Offline Tac

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2002, 06:49:06 AM »
Long  live the Drakhai!

Offline eddiek

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2002, 07:35:14 AM »
"I hope HTC gets all those more WW2 relevant planes before this one. Yes it did fly and yes it had contract for production, but it never ever saw combat. It's very interesting plane, yes. But doesn't belong to AH."    


Amen..............

Offline BUG_EAF322

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2002, 08:24:13 AM »
The americans flew a wing at that time too i believe.
Anyway the mosquito was pretty hard to fin by radar,
because off its all wooden construction.

Offline midnight Target

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2002, 11:17:26 AM »
Quote
Northrop Corporation built an all-wing airplane in 1927


Look Here


MX-324 was a rocket powered flying wing ...airborn in 1944.

Offline WidoSlyr

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2002, 11:44:18 AM »
It doesn't have to be a fighter.  It could be a scout or something.

Offline tofri

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2002, 11:52:05 AM »
Oh, thats reminds me on "The Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe".

There it was the uberplane, even better than the Me262.
A bombload of 1000kg, a cruise speed around 500 mph and a flightmodel like our n1k2.

Offline Esme

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2002, 12:47:09 PM »
Dont be slly; they never went operational. Besides, if we're talking low-profile on radar, I bet quite a few WW1 aircraft meet that definition.  Fokker DVII as a perk plane in AH, anyone? No, I rather think not.  There's enough problems with too many uber-planes in teh MA - and many of them unperked at that - without adding another one.

Lets have a few more REPRESNTATIVE types that actually flew operational sorties in some numbers!

Esme

Offline Sabre

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2002, 02:02:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
The americans flew a wing at that time too i believe.
Anyway the mosquito was pretty hard to fin by radar,
because off its all wooden construction.


Actually, the Mossie wasn't particularly stealthy.  In some repects and at some aspect angles it was actually less stealthy than some metal-skinned aircraft.  The reason for this is the engines, control cables, fuel lines, screws/nuts/bolts, radios, fuel tanks, hydrualics (if any), the pilot's ego (a possibly enormous reflector), and a myriad of other internal scattering sources are normally hidden by the metal skin of an aircraft.  That metal skin is a large "specular" reflector (meaning it's direct and initial reflection, which leaves the surface at an angle equal but opposite of the direction the radar waves impinge on the surface).  However, at any other angle besides the main reflection angle much less electromagnetic energy is scattered.  The key to making an aircraft stealty is to make sure that any reflection of radar energy goes in a direction other than back towards the radar site.

Now, if you strip the skin off an aircraft (or make that skin semi-transparent to the radar...because even wood reflects some radar energy), you're looking at a whole bunch of separate scattering sources that would normally be hidden by the metal skin.  While each individual source may be smaller than the surface they're hiding under, they all add together to make a very large and very broad (angularly speaking) radar scatterer.  This is why the F-117 and B2 still have skins that are not radar permmiable (i.e. they're not see-thru to the radar).  They do have radar absorbing materials (RAM) selectively placed around the aircraft, but not to kill the specular, or direct radar return.  The RAM is there to kill only certain types of secondary radar scattering.  The overall shape of these stealth aircraft is designed in fact to make the biggest possible specular radar return, but to make the angles you see them at very narrow.

Sorry for the long winded explanation, but I can't help it...I've a backgound it this subject.  As far as the Gotha goes, stealth was not the primary design driver; rather it was a side benefit of a design that was chosen for other (aerodynamic) reasons.  Just how stealthly depends on many factors, most of which were not well understood until recently.
Sabre
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Offline funkedup

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2002, 04:32:33 PM »
Kurt Tank invented the B-2.  I saw it on Wings.

Offline superpug1

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2002, 05:16:11 PM »
didnt i post this thing about horton flying wings. :o of coarse that was under superpug not superpug1:p

Offline Grendel

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the germans had the first stealth fighter!
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2002, 06:12:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fdiron
Flying Wings suffered directional and stability problems until the advent of fly-by-wire systems.  I imagine the HO 229 would have suffered from the same problem.



Quotes:

From 1936 the brothers were officers in the Luftwaffe but continued their work which led in 1942 to studies for a flying wing jet fighter. Accordingly, work was hastened on two prototypes which was all the small team could contemplate. The HO IX V1 was to fly as glider, subsequently being modified to install two BMW 003 A turbojets. Gliding trials at Oranienburg began in about May 1944 and from the start the handling characteristics were outstandingly good.

In addition to the V1 and V2, seven more prototypes were ordered plus 20 production fighters. The Go-229 V2 began it's flight test program at Oranienburg in January 1945. Take off required less than 450 m and handling was superb. The programme advanced no further.

...

The airframe was mated with two Junkers Jumo turbojets of the sort developed for the Messerschmitt Me 262. The turbojet was apparently flown successfully in December 1944, and it eventually achieved a speed of nearly 500 mph (800 km/h). After about two hours of flying time, it was destroyed in a February 1945 crash that killed its test pilot.

(engine fire)

...

Its potential was obvious, however, and the Gotha company promptly readied the turbojet for production as a fighter-bomber with the Air Ministry designation Ho 299. (Because Gotha built it, the turbojet is also called the Go 229.) Supposedly it would fly at 997 km/h (623 mph), which if true meant that it was significantly faster than the Me 262--let alone the Flying Wings that Northrop was building.