Author Topic: plane we should have:Helldiver (Read 516 times)

udet · « **on:** May 10, 2002, 01:16:41 PM »

Yeah,as many of you are saying, we need dive-bombers. I think the SB2C Helldiver would be an excellent plane,especially the one with 20mm cannons in front.

cajun · « **Reply #1 on:** May 10, 2002, 04:23:02 PM »

nah hs-123 divebomber!
Armament: 2x20mm Cannons:eek: and 2x500lbs or 1x1000lb bomb.
And after you drop your bombs you can outturn anyother plane even zero and just blast em with the 20 mms

Nilsen · « **Reply #2 on:** May 10, 2002, 04:55:02 PM »

YES. want the helldiver

brady · « **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2002, 07:00:40 PM »

Heldive is a big POS: I hope it is not modeled.

Quotes from Bombers of WW2 ISBN # 1-56799-683-3:

"the only thing wrong was the aircraft itself.To a man the US Navy prefered the old SBD, which simply kept on in the forfront of the battle"

"The other mass-produced Curtiss of WW2 was the SO3C Seamew, and it is doubtful if two less-successful aircraft have been ever built in numbers."

" The experance played a magor part in the decline of the once pre-ement names of Curtis and Wright in the imediate post war era"

"Structural weakness, generaly poor handeling, shockingly inadequate stabality(espichaly in yaw and pitch) and unexceptable stall characteristics."

" crashes, inflight breakups and carier landing accidents continued at the very top of the league table"

" To everyone in the US Navy this aircraft was The Beast"

I would rather see the SBD if we must have another US carier plane, it would be far more usefull. I f you want a plane with 20mm hispanos (another like we dont have enough already), then the Firefly would be a good choice, Or the Grace(20mmType 99MK 2)

brady · « **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2002, 07:16:37 PM »

When it comes right down to it their are only 2 good choices for a new CV strike aircraft. The Fairey Firefly or the Aichi B7A Grace.Some may argue for other Japanes aircraft like the Jill for instance but all but the Grace are lightly armed gun wise so lightly in fact one could consider their guns almost usless. Another point for the Grace is it's handeling and Preformance great spead for a plane of it's type and handeling preportadely compreable with that of a Zero.

Fairey Firefly:

Max Speed aprox 316 mph
Four 20mm Hispanos
Two 1,000pound bombs or Eight 60lb rockets.

Aichi B7A Grace

Max Speed 352 mph
Two 20mm type 99 model 2 cannons
one 13mm type 2 firing to the rear
1,764lb's of bombs or a torpedo

cajun · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2002, 07:41:24 PM »

Fairey SwordFish Would Make a good Carrier strike aircraft,

Armament: 1500lbs of bombs or torp, 1x7.9 mm MG in front and 1x7.9 mm in back for gunner/observer.

Add Biwingers!

cajun · « **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2002, 07:44:30 PM »

Oh and correction to the armament on the Hs-123:

1 × 551 lb and 4 × 110 lb bombs, or

4 × 110 lb SC-50 bombs, or

2 × container with 92 × 4,4 lb fragmentation bombs, or

1x1000lb bomb or

2x500lb bombs.

-ammo- · « **Reply #7 on:** May 11, 2002, 12:23:51 AM »

we need a SBD or a Helldiver. Helldiver would fit the late war planeset better. They wouldnt model its problems either.

LtHans · « **Reply #8 on:** May 11, 2002, 01:52:27 AM »

SBD would be more useful than the Helldiver. I agree that the Grace would be too.

HOWEVER!

I don't think any dive bomber is useful at all in the main arena. Why? Well, who would use it...and when? Answer. Nobody. Why? 'Cause the fighters can carry bombs too. Whatcha doing using a Helldiver when a F4U-1D is sitting down in the hangar deck collecting dust?

I think the only carrier attack planes that would see use are the torpedo bombers and early war dive bombers. Late war dive bombers aren't so useful. Early war carrier fighters don't carry bombs big enough to be usefull, so then I would take an SBD because I have to.

oboe · « **Reply #9 on:** May 11, 2002, 07:02:16 AM »

I think LtHans is right. With the amount of ordnance the Navy started slinging on their latewar fighter a/c, the dive bomber really became outmoded. The Japanese still depended on naval bomber through the end of the war however.

I disagree about the utility of the SBD vs the Helldiver though. The Helldiver carries more ordnance (including a torpedo and rockets), has more strafing punch with the 20mms, is a bigger tougher airframe, and is faster. Its also gotta be one of the least popular and least attractive aircraft ever to grace a carrier deck, which gives it an unusual appeal to me.

Brady makes an excellent point about the B7A. With those specs, it could actually see use in the MA.

cajun · « **Reply #10 on:** May 11, 2002, 11:57:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by LtHans
SBD would be more useful than the Helldiver. I agree that the Grace would be too.

HOWEVER!

I don't think any dive bomber is useful at all in the main arena. Why? Well, who would use it...and when? Answer. Nobody. Why? 'Cause the fighters can carry bombs too. Whatcha doing using a Helldiver when a F4U-1D is sitting down in the hangar deck collecting dust?

I think the only carrier attack planes that would see use are the torpedo bombers and early war dive bombers. Late war dive bombers aren't so useful. Early war carrier fighters don't carry bombs big enough to be usefull, so then I would take an SBD because I have to.

All the more reason to add the sword fish hs-123 and maybe CR42

1: They are early war divebombers and we currently have NO biplanes in AH! AH cannot be comeplete without biplanes! they played a VERY important roll and cannot be left out. There were even some still being used in combat as late as 1944!

2:We need more torpedo carring planes and SwordFish would fill that roll good.

3:I think they would benifit the MA, as well as CT etc. Because they could out turn ANYTHING in the game yet and most went about the same speed as the a6m2 and hurricaneI we have (some a lil slower) but they could outturn them easily, even the a6m2.

4: They would be ver rugged Imagine no more getting your wingtip pinged off and goin outta control u have 4 wings! and 4 ailerons on most imagine the roll rate

And (If this is modeled correctly in AH) 1 big advantage of fabric covered frames was the bullet just went straight through causing little damadge.

Angus · « **Reply #11 on:** May 12, 2002, 11:18:57 AM »

Well, if our bombsights were not so accurate, and dive bombers were featured with the gadgets they had to make their dive more stable, they would be used.
I'd vote for the dauntless rather than the Helldiver though, the Dauntless being a nice and nimbl aircraft while the Helldiver was just a dreadfulæ peace of crap.

SKurj · « **Reply #12 on:** May 12, 2002, 12:51:03 PM »

cc SBD was also used for fleet cap duties because of its maneuverability

SKurj

Dr Zhivago · « **Reply #13 on:** May 12, 2002, 01:23:57 PM »

Aichi B7A Ryusei is best choise to game and would be suitable for the MA. Helldiver is just big hog with few drawbacks, poor handling, unsatisfactory low-speed stability, dangerous stalling characteristics and unstable in a high-speed dive. Dauntless was older and slower than its Japanese opposite number, the Aichi D3A2 "Val" but the SBD was far more resistant to battle damage, and its flying qualities perfectly suited it to its role. In particular as its pilots testified it was very steady in a dive.

Durr · « **Reply #14 on:** May 12, 2002, 02:59:47 PM »

Just to correct a piece of misinformation above, most biplanes only have 2 ailerons, not four. Very few have ailerons on both sets of wings.