Author Topic: And where's the outrage for this kind violence?  (Read 589 times)


Offline Eaglecz

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And where's the outrage for this kind violence?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2002, 06:10:56 AM »
hehe they have no cables, no fast food ... nobody care ....

Offline Sandman

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And where's the outrage for this kind violence?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2002, 08:52:10 AM »
The Lord's Resistance Army? :rolleyes:

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The Lord's Resistance Army, which seeks to make the Bible's 10 commandments the law, is notorious for abducting children to induct into their fighting forces or for use as concubines.


Hmmm... How do you legislate "thou shalt not covet"?
sand

Offline Wingnut_0

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And where's the outrage for this kind violence?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2002, 09:10:59 AM »
U know what pisses me off the most?  The fact that the BS in Isreal/Palestine is so shocking and "something must be done" but the UN can only do a half bellybutton job down there in various parts of Afrika because none of it's member countries give a rat's ass.

When more ppl seem to get killed off in 6 months down there than the whole uprising and the WTC put together.

Offline AKDejaVu

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And where's the outrage for this kind violence?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2002, 09:20:15 AM »
Could be that every attempt at help was met with equal violence.  Most learned that getting involved with a civil war in Africa is a no win situation long ago.

Its actually quite sad.

AKDejaVu

Offline Sikboy

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And where's the outrage for this kind violence?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2002, 09:22:22 AM »
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Originally posted by Wingnut_0
U know what pisses me off the most?  The fact that the BS in Isreal/Palestine is so shocking and "something must be done" but the UN can only do a half bellybutton job down there in various parts of Afrika because none of it's member countries give a rat's ass.


Change "UN" to "Secrurity Council" and I'll buy a ticket on that train

-Sikboy
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline midnight Target

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And where's the outrage for this kind violence?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2002, 09:26:06 AM »
Well, its their own fault dammit. If only those people in Africa weren't so darned African!


:rolleyes:

Offline miko2d

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And where's the outrage for this kind violence?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2002, 10:40:33 AM »
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Originally posted by Wingnut_0
U know what pisses me off the most?  The fact that the BS in Isreal/Palestine is so shocking and "something must be done" but the UN can only do a half bellybutton job down there in various parts of Afrika because none of it's member countries give a rat's ass.


 I guess you are one of those people that like sticking their noses into everybody's business.
 Middle East is our problem to a much greater extent that an interncine fighting in two of God-forsaken countries that may as well be on another planet for the most of us.

 Many people living in the western world have direct links to some side of the middle-east conflict. Many are involved in it somehow anyway. Western countries actually set up for that and quite a few other conflicts (India-Pakistan) through deliberate "separate and rule" colonial policies and border drowing.
 Western countries have pretty direct involvement in the propagation of the conflict - where does the money flow into the warmaking there originates? In order to stop ME conflict we would not only have to do certain things, we whould have to stop doingsome things. Watch IRA problem quickly improve once financial support of terrorists became unpopular in US...
 What is even more important, there is a hope of help for those countries unike the african warring cultures.

 What the heck would you do to help Zaire and Uganda situation? Put all their population into high-security concentration camps to prevent them from killing each other?
 Feed them so that their population so their population pressure becomes even greater and their environment deteriorates even faster? Improve their educational and cultural standards while the war is going on? Start buying african slaves again so that those bastards stop killing people outright and instead sold them out? Hire a mercenary band to take over their country? Ask Intel to open a chip fabrication plant?

 Any dollar spent on saving lives in Africa could most likely be spend on saving lives more efficiently elswhere - like installing traffic lights on american streets. Unless you imply that an african life is somehow more valuable then any otehr life, rational people will direct their efforts where they can expect some success. That is why they do not "give a rat's ass".

 miko

Offline midnight Target

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And where's the outrage for this kind violence?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2002, 11:03:20 AM »
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What the heck would you do to help Zaire and Uganda situation? Put all their population into high-security concentration camps to prevent them from killing each other?


I guess my only question would be; Why is this situation any different than the one in Bosnia and why is it considered hopeless in comparison?

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2002, 11:23:26 AM »
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I guess my only question would be; Why is this situation any different than the one in Bosnia and why is it considered hopeless in comparison?


 I could easily write an extencive article listing the differences if I had time.
 Besides being next-door neighbours and a real possible refugee problem, both sides have long ties to many countries. Tehre is a great historical affinity between Serbia and Russia while bosnians cooperated with germans.
 There are plenty of serbs, bosnians and albanians (along with arabs and jews) in New York.
 Both sides may have members willing to slaughter each other, but neither is suicidal  - so they can be pressured/scared by forse. They are also quite civilised and understand wery well implications of their actions. While serbs slaughtered thousands of people in Srebrenica, they made sure not a single UN trooper was hurt.
 It is possible to access that area by military forse and apply that forse with the degree of success and reasonably low casualties amond the "peacemakers" - so even a threat of that often suffices.

 That is just the tip.

 miko
« Last Edit: May 13, 2002, 11:26:00 AM by miko2d »

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2002, 11:30:18 AM »
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Both sides may have members willing to slaughter each other, but neither is suicidal - so they can be pressured/scared by force. They are also quite civilised and understand wery well implications of their actions.


I think you hit the nail on the head with the above quote. This is the sentiment I think many Americans and Europeans feel about this region and really paints the foreign policy picture. The degree of civilization is not the real issue. It is more the understanding (misunderstanding) of their civilization. Much of what we see as barbarian attitudes is just an African civilization which is based upon a completely different set of paradigms.

Offline miko2d

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And where's the outrage for this kind violence?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2002, 12:07:10 PM »
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Originally posted by midnight Target
The degree of civilization is not the real issue. It is more the understanding (misunderstanding) of their civilization.


 Of course it is. If you are used to live in comfort as civilised people do, you would need a really good reason to risk your life. If your life is hell anyway (subcistence living with back-breaking labor, no security, medical care or anything else), you do not value your or anybody else's life that much.

 While Europe is a home to the bloodiest conflicts in history - like WWI and WWII - they started with expectations of low casualties. They never set up to destroy enemy populations in wars of at least the last 300 yars - just sought to "continue their politics by other means".
 At the same time xenocide on african scale was quite common in european warfare before it got prosperous.

 Also, people living in civilised countries are used to using reason and non-violent mechanisms in resolving conflicts and abiding to decision even if it is a compromise.
 Most western people are taugh to value of human life to such an extent, that they much more likely to waste their time figuring ways to save some far-away savages then contemplating weither to kill a neighbour for some offence.

  miko
« Last Edit: May 13, 2002, 12:12:49 PM by miko2d »

Offline ~Caligula~

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And where's the outrage for this kind violence?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2002, 12:20:19 PM »
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While Europe is a home to the bloodiest conflicts in history - like WWI and WWII - they started with expectations of low casualties. They never set up to destroy enemy populations in wars of at least the last 300 yars - just sought to "continue their politics by other means".


Think about that once more.
Hitler was quiet excited about wiping out jews,slavs,gipsies and who knows what else.

On the original tread:
While I belive arabs still have a 12th century feudal mindset,wich causing them to act the way they do,people in those african countries are straigh from the stoneage.They live in tribes,they don`t have the same values as we do,but they have access to modern weapons as assault-rifles and machineguns,and they just go ballistic with them.Just like giving guns to a bunch of 5 years olds and telling them "go have some fun kids".
Very sad indeed,and I think the fighting will still be on in Africa when the problems in the Mid-East are long gone.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2002, 12:30:27 PM by ~Caligula~ »

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2002, 01:37:17 PM »
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Originally posted by ~Caligula~
Think about that once more.
Hitler was quiet excited about wiping out jews,slavs,gipsies and who knows what else.


 Whatever were his private plans, his publicised ones never included extermination of anyone untill well into the period when WWII turned sour for Germany. Then he turned his concentration camps into death camps.

 There are no reasons to believe that proportion of germans who would knowingly support xenocide was any higher then that of poles, dutch, french, ukrainans, etc. - some of which gladly cooperated with nazis in rounding off their jewish neighbours for slaughter.

 Most germans never expected such turn of events and did not condone it in the least. Not that the measures they approved were nice, but outright killing was not one of them. In fact most things that they approved of - forbiding inter-racial marriages, segregation, refusal to do business with, etc. - was quite common in US of A at that time.
 Very few germans would risk their lives to kill a jew - even among those who wanted to do so.

 By the way, Hitler, unlike Satan was a real historical personage. What he said and what he did and how he did it and when is well documented - including by himself.
 Coming up with any bad things imaginable and attributing it to Satan's influence may be a valid method in religion but not in science. It may be tempting to think that blaming the bad guy for more stuff - real or not - cannot hurt, but  in history details do matter.
 Ignoring a little matter of timing like when Hitler made his mind (or made public his plans) to physically eliminate jews may not make much difference in our opinionn of Hitler's character, but it makes a world of difference in our opinion of german character.

 miko
« Last Edit: May 13, 2002, 01:41:48 PM by miko2d »

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2002, 02:48:01 PM »
Just freakin incredible the level of unseen prejudice in the above posts.

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They live in tribes,they don`t have the same values as we do,but they have access to modern weapons as assault-rifles and machineguns,and they just go ballistic with them.Just like giving guns to a bunch of 5 years olds and telling them "go have some fun kids".


Like 5 year olds.....not like "regular" humans huh? I'm sure they have no feelings regarding family, love, patriotism..etc.

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people living in civilised countries are used to using reason and non-violent mechanisms in resolving conflicts and abiding to decision even if it is a compromise.


Not like those uncivilized heathen huh? I'm sure those africans would never be able to understand a compromise. :rolleyes:

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They (serbs) are also quite civilised and understand wery well implications of their actions.


And those poor uneducated Africans just can't understand like those civilized Europeans. They could never put 2 & 2 together regarding their own actions...BS.

Now don't misunderstand me please. I'm sure the people who posted these remarks are well meaning souls. Yet the words they use show that without a doubt they view Africans as somewhat lesser people and that is something we should always point out.