Author Topic: Battle of Midway  (Read 518 times)

Offline Durr

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
      • http://us.geocities.com/ghostrider305
Battle of Midway
« on: May 13, 2002, 05:30:02 PM »
The Battle of Midway is one that I have studied since I was very young.  I even ended up doing a project on the battle for one of my Air Force classes in college. This was clearly one of the most important battles of World War II, and is important for many reasons.  Rarely do you see such a decisive battle, that has such clear implications as a turning point.  The forces were very nearly equal in many ways, with the Japanese having a slight edge in aircraft and weapons quality, as well as in numbers of ships, although this was balanced in part by the American knowledge of their intentions through the broken Japanese code.  

I have long wished to have the opportunity to replay the Battle of Midway in a flight simulator.    I had Aces of the Pacific, but it didnt do a good job with the Midway campaign.  That was my last WW2 simulator that was set in the Pacific theatre, or featured Pacific theatre aircraft, until Aces High.  I am extremely excited about the prospect of having the Battle of Midway as a special event at some point.  For a long time, the plane set to do this just didnt exist, but now it seems that we may be close.  

The following planes were present at the Battle of Midway:

USA: F-4f, F-2f, SBD, TBF, TBD, Vindicator, PBY, B-26, B-17

Japan: Zero, Kate, Val, various spotter planes

The ones that I consider crucial for a AH scenario of the event at the very minimum:
F-4f, SBD, Zero, Val, and some type of torpedo plane for both sides.  

We already have the B-17 and B-26 although not the correct versions, they will be fine for our purposes, especially since neither of these aircraft types played a significant role in the battle.  B-17s bombed from altitude, only scoring one possible minor hit.  B-26s carried torpedoes, which their crews had never dropped before, and participated in the lo-level torpedo attacks that were decimated by the IJN fleet AA guns and Zeroes.  

 The Vindicator and Buffalo were used by the USMC from the island itself, but were slaughtered and didnt accomplish much except to provide bullet sponges for the IJN fighters.

 The PBY was one of the major heroes of the battle, as it located the IJN fleet, and also did a torpedo attack that resulted in a hit on a Japanese support ship, but I think we will have to do without it for now, since it would have little role in AH as the game is currently set up.

The prime players, however, were the Carrier based fighters, dive and torpedo bombers on both sides.  We know we are getting the older variant of the Zero, the F-4f, and the Val in the next release already.

 We already have the Avenger (which made its combat debut at Midway, when 6 of them launched from Midway itself, and were promptly massacred by the Japanese fighters, with only 1 making it back to the island).  

The TBD Devestator was the torpedo bomber used by all the US carriers at Midway, and they were wiped out almost to the last man (in the case of one squadron, Torpedo 8, from the Hornet, literally to the last man, as they only had one survivor).  The Devestator isnt likely to make it into the game any time soon, and I dont think that many would argue that it should.  It was hopelessly obselete by Midway, and wouldnt stand a chance in AH.  Although I normally detest plane substitutions, the Avenger can and should substitute for the TBD.  

The IJN need a torpedo bomber, but likely the Avenger will get to sub in for them as well, although I dont really like that idea.  I would prefer to see the Grace introduced, and use that to sub for the Kate.  

The one aircraft that we really need for this scenario most of all, that we do not currently have, is the star of the battle, the SBD Dauntless dive bomber.  This aircraft, flown by the brave pilots of the USN and USMC, was responsible for almost all the damage done to the IJN at Midway.  The SBD sank or severely damaged 4 Japanese fleet carriers as well as one heavy cruiser.  The SBD also accounted for a number of Japanese fighters as well, both with the tail guns, and in at least one case, with the fixed pilot fired .50s.

 When we get the SBD, I think we need to do the battle of Midway.

Offline jordi

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6116
      • noseart
Battle of Midway
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2002, 05:32:15 PM »
Hmmmm - Miday Scenario - there is a new idea . . .



Hmmmmm .. . .
AW - AH Pilot 199? - 200?
Pulled out of Mothballs for DGS Allied Bomber Group Leader :)

Nose art

Offline Aub

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 712
Battle of Midway
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2002, 05:34:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by jordi
Hmmmm - Miday Scenario - there is a new idea . . .


I've never heard of Miday... what is it?

Was that the battle where Fockewulfs fought 109s?

Offline Durr

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
      • http://us.geocities.com/ghostrider305
Battle of Midway
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2002, 05:48:37 PM »
:p

Offline HFMudd

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 609
Battle of Midway
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2002, 05:55:13 PM »
Quote

Aub asked
Was that the battle where Fockewulfs fought 109s?


No, that was "Gwadakanal"

Offline jordi

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6116
      • noseart
Battle of Midway
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2002, 09:11:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Aub


I've never heard of Miday... what is it?

Was that the battle where Fockewulfs fought 109s?


YA YA YA

See you over LONDON Baby ! Unless your CHICKEN !

Jordi
AW - AH Pilot 199? - 200?
Pulled out of Mothballs for DGS Allied Bomber Group Leader :)

Nose art

Offline Aub

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 712
Battle of Midway
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2002, 09:24:10 PM »
Hey, i was on Team Hacka too :)

As I remember your call of 'going downtown' never played out for us, now did it? :)

Offline Weave

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 343
Battle of Midway
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2002, 10:00:58 PM »
"Zypher to Wirlwind, emeny carrier sighted!"

Offline Packy

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 55
Re: Battle of Midway
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2002, 10:21:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Durr
Rarely do you see such a decisive battle, that has such clear implications as a turning point.  The forces were very nearly equal in many ways, with the Japanese having a slight edge in aircraft and weapons quality, as well as in numbers of ships, although this was balanced in part by the American knowledge of their intentions through the broken Japanese code.  


I didn't know that the Midway was such 'a close run thing'  Your description above reminded me of the French historian (Montaigne?) who said something like..."strength lies not in our horses or weapons but in our own."

It sounds as if Midway has the makings for a great setup in CT.  Whom knows how to do that map-thingummy to set this battle up?  We can call it "the BoB of the Pacific" to get the RAF and Luft fans involved! ha ha

Offline Wanker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4030
Battle of Midway
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2002, 12:31:49 AM »
Quote
When we get the SBD, I think we need to do the battle of Midway.


What a great idea, why didn't we think of that? Hmm, maybe we already did! ;)


Offline brady

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7055
      • http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/JG2main.html
Battle of Midway
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2002, 12:46:14 AM »
I can not imagine how we would do a Midway set up for the CT, a week of sinking and resinking the same CV's? hmmmm yawn, better for those CM boys to do a set up for it I should think.

Offline Durr

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
      • http://us.geocities.com/ghostrider305
Battle of Midway
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2002, 04:05:39 PM »
I dont see why we couldnt have a CT Midway setup too.  Four carrier groups on the Japanese side, and three on the US, plus the US gets an airbase on the island itself.  Would obviously be radically different than any other setup ever done, since the Japanese would have no land bases.  The island would serve as a focal point for the action since it would be the only real known point.  With 7 cv groups swirling around in close proximity, should be interesting.  I do think the ack lethality should be turned down on the CV fleets for this though, to reflect the lower lethality of 1942 ack in general.

Offline stat2000

  • Parolee
  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 97
Battle of Midway
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2002, 04:12:20 PM »
Ensign George Gay was the last guy in the dauntless's he spoke at my high school about 10 years ago.  Very interesting character.  Talked about the movie Midway and how he got shot thru the hand only in the movie it was the wrong hand.  He also spoke of how bloody close he was to the ships after he got shot down, he said if he had a rock he could have easily threw it and hit the side of the carrier.

Offline stat2000

  • Parolee
  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 97
Battle of Midway
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2002, 04:15:20 PM »
some good reading about the battle of midway...in particular and interview with ensign george gay



http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq81-8c.htm

Offline jordi

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6116
      • noseart
Battle of Midway
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2002, 04:17:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Durr
I dont see why we couldnt have a CT Midway setup too.  Four carrier groups on the Japanese side, and three on the US, plus the US gets an airbase on the island itself.  Would obviously be radically different than any other setup ever done, since the Japanese would have no land bases.  The island would serve as a focal point for the action since it would be the only real known point.  With 7 cv groups swirling around in close proximity, should be interesting.  I do think the ack lethality should be turned down on the CV fleets for this though, to reflect the lower lethality of 1942 ack in general.


Or for CT . .

Let either side capture / recapture Midway - Not sure if it can be set so that after the capture the side that just captured it has just thier planes availabe ?

Lots of ways you can make it interesting.

Jordi
AW - AH Pilot 199? - 200?
Pulled out of Mothballs for DGS Allied Bomber Group Leader :)

Nose art