Bf 110C-4 25 mph too fast.

[Karnak]

OK, you all have my apologoies.  I just accepted that Ripsnort had tested the correct Bf110.

(I was a little bent that there'd been two threads about it and nary a peep from the Luftwaffe dedicated, whereas some seem only too willing to participate in discussions about overmodeled USAAF and RAF aircraft. BTW,  I do think there are some valid issues there, such as the Spit I's roll rate)

[Hooligan]

Karnak:

Just follow this simple algorithm.

1) Say:  "Got film?"
2) When the answer is (invariably) "No", then...
3) Beat them

In this particular case Squire does not have film and Urchin does but since Urchin is the Luftweenie we beat him.

Bad Urchin!

I hope that clears this up.

Also if somebody wants some film hosted and can't do it themselves, send it to me (jayb@exmsft.com) and I will host it and place a link to it in this thread.

Hooligan

[Staga]

I'm just wondering if Spit Mk1 should be faster in SL than it is in AH?

[Karnak]

Staga,

I can't find any reference with that info.

The Spit I's sea level speed in AH seems believable to me.

[Sancho]

The 110 problem appears to be a calibration issue with the 110's airspeed indicator.  My test showed in ahfilm.exe 290 max speed at sea level, and 300 with WEP.  The air speed indicator in the plane was showing ~ 15 mph faster than that.  I also tested the Spit Ia and got 283 max speed, 291 with WEP.  Films here (264kb).

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Squire

It out runs SpitIs on the deck easily.
290 TAS max at sea level is what its supposed to do not 315 TAS.

It's because HTC hates the RAF, hates the Spitfire, and hates you too.

-Sikboy

[Wotan]

Wotan,

Nope. This was the second thread about it, in the last one Ripsnort posted his test results.

Since the new film viewer came out it easier to film it the open in the viewer. you will get a speed read out on the right and you can compare that with the speedometer in the cockpit.

After rips post i did that and like sancho it seems the gauge is off in the cockpit compared to the the speed in the film viewer.

Theres was really nothing to reply to in this or the other thread because all we had was a statement without any supporting evidence.

The burden of proof is always on the claimant. If you want something changed then its up to you to prove it and provide the evidence that demonstrates that. You Allied whiners are ruining AH you what you "feel" is wrong.

[Wilbus]

What Wotan said.

110 is slightly faster on wep, everything else the spit does better though, as it should (ok not guns).

The spit 1 roll rate sure seem to be too fast judging from what charts we've seen so far, don't hear any whining about that though.

Gonna go check these films now.

[HFMudd]

IIRC, In Sims "The Greatest Aces" there is one account of a chase on the deck between a 110 and a Spit in the Battle of Britain.  The Spit was able to catch the 110 in this case, but not by a wide margin.  

Don't know what kind of E-stealing manuvers were going on though.

[Squire]

Well Sancho seems to agree with me that it shows 315 on the Airspeed Indicator, so that may be the problem. It should be tighter I think.

As for the Spits roll rate, it either rolls too fast or perhaps the 109Es is too slow, thats my opinion. Im for 100 percent accuracy in all models, irregardless of type, or nationality.

I will also say that I like a good debate on WW2 ac (and other things) and I usually learn something usefull from them.

Regards.

[Glasses]

I agree with SAncho look at how the airssped indicator is off set from the center line this also happens with the flap deployment needle . Both the flap posit indicator and the airspeed needle need to be fixed not the aircraft performance itself.

[Staga]

Karnak reason why I think so is that in Mason's book about hurricanes is a speed/alt/climb speed table for all Hurri models and in that sheet Hurricane I (Edited: Should read Hurri I instead of II)) with MerlinIII and Rotol three bladed constant speed prop has a SL speed 280mph thought I have to check if there is remarks if speed was with 87 or 100oct fuel and what kind of load it was having.
Are Hurri and Spit using 87oct in AH? That would explain a lot.

[Squire]

If they are BoB models (which they are) then 100 octane is what they should be using.

Ospreys "Spitfire I Aces 1939-41" by Alfred Price. Page 19:

"In the spring of 1940 the RAF began using 100 octane petrol in operational aircraft".

So in France it was 87 octane, but in the BoB it was 100 octane. The book mentions a 25 mph increase at sea level for the Spitfire, but doesnt say what that speed was. Obviously the Hurricane would have got a boost as well, of some kind, but again, doesnt give a number.

[-ammo-]

You guys quit aggreeing with sancho. His ego will become unbearable:D

[Pyro]

The 110C in the game is technically a 110C-4b which differs from the 110C-4 not just with the addition of bomb racks, but also with the more powerful DB 601N engines.