Ok...here we go again

[RAM]

I was on Fw190A-8. 10K more or less...runnin at 400 mph from a bunch of bishcuits over F1. One F4U1-C was 1.8K away...I levelled, heard ONE ping...and kabooom

1) guy was very kind and answered my questions. He was 1.2K away in his FE. He saw 2 (TWO) pings.

2) Fw190 was a HEAVILY ARMORED plane with HEAVY armor for both plane and the pilot.

3) Shot was from 1.2K AWAY in his FE. 1.8K on mine...and again I wasnt level...I was a little nose down in a very very shallow turn left (to reach W heading, right back to F2, home).


HTC...This MUST be fixed. I accept some pings from 50 cals at those ranges. I accept some damages,too. But a fw190 was MORE than capable of sustaining that damage, and a Hispano cannon was IMPOSSIBLE to aim at those ranges, due for bullet fall.

I had NO previus damage. I was far. I regard this as the MOST bizarre death in AH since I came here. I have no film,sorry I was TOO BUSY trying to get away from more than 7 cons.

I dont whine about F4U1-C. I whine about the gunnery model that allows this kind of deaths. PLEASE MAKE THIS SHOTS IMPOSSIBLE.

Of course I'll stay here if it left as it is or not. But for sure I am VERY UNHAPPY with it.

And dont start saying that hispanos ...blah blah blah...

Nice shot, Fariz, im not whining about ur gunnery ,but about the model that allows these kills so common...<S> to ur shooting


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Ram, out

JG2 "Richthofen"

   


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-26-2000).]

[funked]

I don't know if these shots should be impossible, but they are certainly occuring too frequently.

[bloom25]

I haven't been able to hit beyond 1k, but then again I've never tried.  Just to back you up RAM, a couple days ago I knocked the tail off another f4u at a range of 900 yds.  On my FE, I saw 3 pings.  (By tail, I mean the entire tail assembly, rudder & elevators.)  It's rare to get hits beyond about 900 yds, but it can happen.  Perhaps netlag played a part here, after all, you are both located quite a distance from HTC.  To the server you may have been much closer than 1.8k.  (It would be nice to see a film, if you have one?)  The maximum distance I've ever seen a hit at was 1.6k on my FE, when I was shooting a b26 with the tailguns of my b26.  It was during the buff-dual we had sometime ago, and I did post a film of it.  If you view the film you will see that I landed 50+ hits from long range, but as you would expect, no damage was the result.

bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[RAM]

nonono...not tail off, or wing gone...KAboom, Kaput, ded, bye bye...etc...

I've beed killed more that 10 times this way ,and I've suffered serious damage a lot of times, also from extreme ranges...

No, I have no film. I was very very busy trying to open my way home thru a bunch of enemy cons...and lately I dont use film in MA too. (I have more than 100 films to see still). But you have my explanation. Fariz can also give his. and there were at least 7 red dots after me...some must have seen this.

As I saw him 1,8K and he saw me 1.2K I take the latter as the distance the server took between my plane an him. Excuse me, 1.2K is EXTREME range for 50 cals...for 20mm must be nearly impossible.

As funked said, these deaths are happening VERY frequently...the model must be changed somehow to give these shots nearly 0% chances to hit.

[Lephturn]

I thought the Hispano 20mm were as good if not a bit better trajectory wise than the .50 cal?  If so, then it is reasonable, if unlikely, to make this shot.

You auto-leveled.  Big mistake... makes you a perfectly still target.  He got lucky and popped a cannon shell in your canopy... boom.  That doesn't mean he blew the plane up from damage, just that he got lucky with a single shell.  It happens.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
 http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/


"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
 - Steve Earl

[RAM]

sorry lephturn...no autolevel in any moment...nose down, banked to the left and shallow course change.

And 20mm hispanos had a much greater bullet drop than 50cals. U only need to see the speed and weight of the bullet in each weapon.

[Lephturn]

Even if I agree to your last two points... (and I'm not certain about the velocity issue, I just don't have the data to argue the point.  )

He got lucky and put a shell in your ear.  Unlikely shot but possible, he just sprayed a pile of 20mm shells in your general direction and connected with one.  One lucky shot doesn't make any point other than that the gunnery model is realistic enough that "lucky shots" can and do happen, as they should.  Better than an artificially limited guns range that takes chance out of the picture.  IMHO.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
 http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/
 

"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
 - Steve Earl

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 03-26-2000).]

[Hans]

About that "Heavily armored" rhetoric going around.

Yes, planes have armor plates in them.  It is still a plane though.  A Panther tank is heavyily armored.  An airplane still has to fly.

Ranges that people are able to hit each other seem excessive to me, but not their lethality.

[RAM]

Hehe Lepht...I have to disagree again...I saw no tracers at all so I suppose the pings were done by a FEW rounds. However I didnt ask him about this so I  wont assure it. But I can say,for sure that If I had seen any tracers I'd have rolled to both sides to shake the bullets (no 1G turn with those red hounds on my tail      )

1.2K Leph it is DAMNED FAR!. And is something that has repeated a lot of times last days...I agree not to make rounds dissapear. I want to see turned down the chances not to make it 0% at all.

Hans: thats why panthers stood 75mm rounds unscathed.
 190A-8 is SO heavy and slow climbin because its armor plates. they were HEAVY armor plates designed to stand 12,7mm rounds from buffs and american fighters.A 20mm round has a lot of punch. But 1 1.2K round has much less kynetic E than a 0.1K one...

I feel like HMS Hood versus KM Bismarck...but with the difference that 20K yards 15''hits were PERFECTLY possible and probable.

Air-to-air 1.2K hits in RL werent that probable...in fact they were VERY strange...

not that strange in Aces High isnt it?

thats my point.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-26-2000).]

[Lephturn]

RAM, he got lucky, period.  His chances to hit you were very low, he just nailed you with the first shell or two very likely.

A single "lucky" shot, and nothing more.

Prove me wrong... show me a film where you get kills at 1K plus.  And please don't say "I didn't have the camera running."  If it's really too easy to get long range kills, it should only take a sortie or two to filme a couple.  It's easy to take one occurence and blow it out of porportion, but try some real analysis and you will see the truth IMHO.    I am open minded here... I would love to see film of a few sorties attempting this, and will graciously admit I was wrong if I am proven so.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
 http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/


"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
 - Steve Earl

[RAM]

Lephturn, yes I have no film on it...and I havent that shooting , I rarely hit anything beyond 600 yds, except buffs. But I've been killed many times this way. I may have no film but I have people that saw thatt or killed me. If u dont believe me, believe them. U dont need a film to prove that these things are getting usual in Main Arena...u only need to ask and u'll get many many examples of this.

I'm not telling that extreme range shooting is easy. It is HARD! I salute fariz and chaunc and all the people that has killed me from those ranges!...what i say is that IT ISNT HARD ENOUGH!, and that is a fact...

to say "I need a film to believe" is not fair. The thing is there and we all have seen or heard about it...and IMHO is a thing that needs to be fixed.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-26-2000).]

[funked]

RAM, the real Hispanos had equal or better muzzle velocity to the M2 .50 cal.  Also the mass to drag ratio of the Hispanos was higher.  The Hispano should therefore have equal or better trajectory and range.

[Hristo]

Heh, I got killed by P 38 rockets from 1000 yards in 400 mph IAS dive  

It happens, I guess.

[Minotaur]

Funny how things go.  I was going to start a thread about how the 50's on my P-38 seem pretty in-effective.  Seems that I have to be really close, like inside 400yds to have any effect at all.

Diving on a bomber I will start shooting at d1.2k and start tracking my shots in.  Dang if I don't blow up when I see about d500-600 to BUFF.

Weird thing is often times I am not seeing tracers either.  I just blow up, thinking "Well, they have been shooting at me cause I blew up!"

I have been getting alot of hits lately with no damage to target.

Confused...  


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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[Tern]

 

Originally posted by Minotaur:
Funny how things go.  I was going to start a thread about how the 50's on my P-38 seem pretty in-effective.  Seems that I have to be really close, like inside 400yds to have any effect at all.

Diving on a bomber I will start shooting at d1.2k and start tracking my shots in.  Dang if I don't blow up when I see about d500-600 to BUFF.

Weird thing is often times I am not seeing tracers either.  I just blow up, thinking "Well, they have been shooting at me cause I blew up!"

I have been getting alot of hits lately with no damage to target.

Confused...    

Bang-on Mino!  What's worse, other day while in the pony with RWY as wingman... I chase a 38 off him and land hits at D600-400 and the 38 goes in... NO KILL MESSAGE.    NO ASSIST MESSAGE.    RWY witnessed that, so ask him if you doubt me.
Little later Propnut runs me into the ground chasing me in his 38 and never got a hit on me.  but PropNut gets the "manuever kill" of me???  Yes, I blew up on channel 1 at that point. and HT bounced me off saying a nono poop word.
This crap has been going on for over a month now.  When I got back on, I asked HT what gives and he has no idea(?)  Now, I am not flaming HT, but one would think he'd be a bit more concerned when folks report stuff like this too him.  At least he could have said they are looking into it.  
One last thing -
I believe HT said they "...may model the APE round for the 50's..." the other day.  This means we're stuck with straight AP (Armor Piercing) rounds.  If this is the case, then I fully understand why the 50's "appear" weak.  The bullet Zips right on through the target.
Now I've been misunderstood before and vice versa, so if I'm wrong HT, please illuminate us.


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Tern
"Live to Fly!  Fly to Fight!  Fight to Live!"