.Move Ammo Command

[muckmaw]

Here's a thought that came to me last night, on a low level B-26 raid over A-19. After fending off 4 Bogs, I found my tail gun empty, and myself screaming into my mic for someone to clear my 6 as I was defenseless (Top turret had no shot and only had 125 rounds left)

Would a real tail gunner ask for more ammo from say, the waist gunner, or the nose?

If the guns are the same caliber (Not sure) I know he would. Why not impliment a "Dot" command where you could move ammo from one gun to another, with maybe a 30 second delay?

".move ammo left waist to tail" Etc. When 30 seconds have elapsed, 1/2 the ammo the waist gun had would be transferred to the tail, simulating a waist gunner running the ammo back.

Bad idea? Good idea?

[Wanker]

I've always wondered if the ammo loadouts are correct for the gunners in the first place. Was it standard procedure to have the smallest ammo load in the tail? That seems totally backwards to me.

[muckmaw]

In the 26, which is my main ride, I know the bulk of the ammo is in the tail and the top turret. If memory serves me, I think they have 1000-1500 rounds each. The nose has 400 rounds, and I believe the waist guns have 4-600 each.

Still, when fighting off any more than 3 Bogs, 1500 rounds isn't always enough. Some of those wings on the 109's don't come off very easy.

[Hooligan]

Belts of .50 ammo are anything but light.  Moving a 45 lb ammo belt (150 rounds) in the constricted spaces of a maneuvering bomber might be pretty challenging and time-consuming.  I have no doubt that being shot at would provide the motivation to overcome the inherent difficulties, but it might be that 30 seconds is rather optimistic for the procedure.  Before HTC adds this I would hope somebody could come up with some information about how difficult a procedure it was.

Hooligan

[NOD2000]

yah but they did share ammo alot..........even if it was a strip of 20 rounds they did transer ammo ALOT.........we should be able to do it in AH

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by Hooligan
Belts of .50 ammo are anything but light.  Moving a 45 lb ammo belt (150 rounds) in the constricted spaces of a maneuvering bomber might be pretty challenging and time-consuming.  I have no doubt that being shot at would provide the motivation to overcome the inherent difficulties, but it might be that 30 seconds is rather optimistic for the procedure.  Before HTC adds this I would hope somebody could come up with some information about how difficult a procedure it was.

Hooligan

Hooligan-

It took a hell of alot longer than 30 seconds to refuel, and rearm a fighter or bomber in WWII. I would imagine the turnaround time on even a fighter would be at least 15 mins. Forget about a bomber. Yet, in AH, we fully refuel, and rearm, regardless of the loadout, in 30 seconds, using the rearm pads.

So while 30 seconds to move ammo may not be historically accurate, it's well within the accepted rearm time of the Aces High realm.

[muckmaw]

From B-26.com:

The armament included a flexible 0.30-Cal machine gun installed in the tip of a transparent nose cone and operated by the bombardier. Two 0.50-Cal machine guns were installed in a Martin-designed dorsal turret located behind the bomb bay just ahead of the tail. This was the first power-operated turret to be fitted to an American bomber. Another 0.30-Cal flexible machine gun was installed in a manually-operated tunnel position cut into the lower rear fuselage. There was a 0.50-Cal manually-operated machine gun installed in a pointed tail cone. The tail gunner had enough room to sit in an upright position, unlike the prone position that had been provided in the early B-25.

There were two bomb bays, fore and aft. The bomb bay doors were unusual in being split in tandem, the forward pair folding in half when opened and the aft set being hinged normally to open outward. Two 2000-LB bombs could be carried in the main bomb bay, but up to 4800 pounds of smaller bombs could be carried if the aft bay was used as well.


So the ammo on the Dorsal Turrets would be compatible with that of the tail gun.

Also, Are we missing out on an extra bomb bay and 4800 lbs of iron, or are we just being shorted 800 lbs?

[cajun]

This is a great idea! the time it takes to transfer ammo should depend on how much say I type .move 50 rounds it should only take about 15 secs but .move 100 rounds might take 30 secs

[Hooligan]

The rearm pad does not simulate anything.  You can get faster (almost instantaneous) turn-around by exiting the aircraft and flying a new one.  Re-arming is simply a GAME mechanism that allows you to get longer streaks and muck with your score/stats.  Allowing re-arm doesn't really have any adverse effect on the simulation per se... i.e. by allowing it you don't create unrealistically fast turn around times when there would be none otherwise.

On the other hand, if moving ammo was a huge chore in bombers and you can easily relocate it in AH then maybe this would be effectively giving bombers twice the ammo for the most used defensive guns.  This would be bogus IMO.  I don't know how long the ammo belts were in bombers and if 20 round sections could be conveniently pulled off and relocated.  However if AH allows you to move ammo around in bombers, I would hope that it would entail reasonable SIMULATED time delays.  If NOD2000 is right, and ammo transfers were easy and commonly done then so be it.  However, for added features like this the burden of proof has always been on the customers who want the change.  I expect HTC isn't going to be too interested in doing this unless they already know that NOD2000 is right or somebody comes up some documentation to support the position.

Hooligan

[eskimo2]

I love the idea!

eskimo

[Witless]

Hi,

This is a great idea. As for if it happened in reality, the co-pilot was asked to re-supply the tail gunner in Memphis Belle so it must be true

I personally think, and I think someone mentioned it previously, there can be fewer more motivational experiences than being at 20,000 feet with a 109 on your 6 and the tail gunner screaming out for more ammo.

[Kweassa]

Question:  Who do you think was free to leave his post, move around the plane, take ammo from another guy's position where he might need that ammo, strip the belt away from the ammo box, carry the belt to his own place, and revitalize his wizzled gun stick while vicious interceptors are squealing around the buff?

 Answer: noone

 .......

 If a buff can move around ammo like that in AH, the move around is gonna have to take 30 seconds just like the rearm pad, while both the gun the ammo is being transferred from and transferred to is rendered inoperable.

 Otherwise, limited ammo loads are historical advantages and disadvantages simuated just like every other plane in the game. Learn to live with the limitations.

[NOD2000]

correction navigoator would do it or a person with there turrent out or the bombader so kwesska

[Booky]

I love this idea. Personally I don't care if it takes lets say 5 min to move 250 rounds. The reason is that I usually either die or kill the one or two or three enemy that attack me at once, and then have a few minutes or more to fly before more attacks. After the first attack I usually used up my ammo on the 1-3 guys and need more so I almsot always die on the 4th or 5th guy. But the fact that these 4th and 5th pilots come usually sometime later in the flight I would love to trade say 5 min of disabled guns to move some ammo to my empty gun. After all who cares if your empty gun is disabled anyway

I am all for this this with maybe lets say a 5 min delay on 500 rounds.

[Karnak]

How about an option to take one less bomb on the Lanc and actually have some ammo for the tail gun?

I wonder if the Lanc's with .50s really had so little ammo for them?  Pyro said it was an educated guess, IIRC.