Author Topic: Cougar Owners Poll  (Read 1553 times)

Offline Max

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Cougar Owners Poll
« on: May 19, 2002, 08:36:39 AM »
I'm between a rock and a hard place trying to decide between buying a Cougar vs CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle USB system.

Question 1 : Is the Cougar worth $270? The CH system runs a hair over $200.

Question 2: On a scale of 1 - 10 how hard is it to program the Cougar?

Thanks for the feedback!

DmdMax

Offline Mathman

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Cougar Owners Poll
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2002, 09:28:47 AM »
I can't say how it compares to the CH stick/throttle, but the Cougar is absolutely wonderful.  It is very precise and definitely appears to be the new high end standard for HOTAS controllers.  You might want to go to Cougar World and see what it has to offer.  The forums probably have some comparisons with the CH stuff as well.

To me, the answers to the questions would be:

1) The Cougar is well worth the $$$.  Very durable, precise, and quality engineering and manufacturing.

2) I would say that it is a 8 on the difficulty to program (somewhat difficult, but easy to figure out and do once you figure it out).  This is my first TM product, and I am only just now getting into programming it.  There are profiles to download if you don't know how to (or too lazy/not enough time).  They are also a good way to learn to program it and are good starting points.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2002, 09:32:58 AM by Mathman »

Offline Zeb

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Re: Cougar Owners Poll
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2002, 12:20:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DMax
I'm between a rock and a hard place trying to decide between buying a Cougar vs CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle USB system.

Question 1 : Is the Cougar worth $270? The CH system runs a hair over $200.


No....It's worth twice that much :)  The build quality is superb.
I suspect later batches might cost more.

Quote
Question 2: On a scale of 1 - 10 how hard is it to program the Cougar?

 


As easy or as hard as you want.  It comes with a suite of very nice software packages to help develop your own profiles.  What usually happens is you take the best bits of other peoples profiles and glue them all together.

I will NOT be returning to CH gear!!!

Offline LoneStarBuckeye

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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2002, 12:43:03 PM »
I have owned and used both setups you are considering. As I see it, the Cougar is superior and worth the extra money (having used Cougar, I likely would have paid 2-3 times as much), although the CH setup is excellent as well.  Here are the pros and cons as I see them:

Physical characteristics.  The (almost) all-metal construction of the Cougar is unbelievable.  The stick and throttle are beautiful and VERY solid.  The hat switches on the Cougar, and particularly the "coolie" (i.e., trim) switch have longer throws than the hat switches on the CH gear, making them more precise and easier to use.  The Cougar's springs initially seemed too strong for my liking, but that is probably because this is my first Thrustmaster stick.  Now that I am getting used to the Cougar, I actually like the force required to move the stick.  I think it aids maneuvering precision and detracts from yanking one's plane around and burning energy.  Just be aware that if you are used to CH, Saitek, or MS sticks, there will be an adjustment period before you can fly as capably with the Cougar.

The CH gear is made out of industrial-grade plastic and is also very solid.  The shapes of the CH and Cougar sticks are quite similar (as you would expect, given their inspiration).  The CH stick can be deflected with MUCH less force than the Cougar.  Notwithstanding the differences in the two sticks, both afford excellent control.  Although I prefer the Cougar, I think that many people that primarily play WWII sims may prefer the lighter throw of the CH stick.

The CH throttle slides forward and back, and the Cougar throttle rotates around a pivot point.  I think that both configurations work fine, but I prefer the rotating throttle to the sliding one.  Also, the buttons and hats on the CH throttle appear to be a custom design, while the Cougar throttle is modeled after the F-16 throttle.  Both the Cougar and the CH throttle offer mini-joysticks, but the Cougar provides two additional analog axes in the form of rotary dials (similar to those found on the Saitek X36/X45 throttle).  The CH throttle, on the other hand, offers additional hat switches and buttons on its throttle.  

Both HOTAS set-ups allow three different configurations in which keypresses can be assigned different meanings.  One nice feature of the CH stick is that the current "mode" is indicated by an LED.  The Cougar has no such feature (for, one assumes, reasons of modeling accuracy).  

Programming.  Both setups come with software that automates, to some degree, the process of programming the HOTAS.  The CH control manager software is probably easier to use, but the programming flexibility offered by Cougar is unparalled.  I love to code, so the Cougar's programming flexibility was enough to sell me on the unit.  Here are a few of the cool things you can do with the Cougar:
1.  Use logical variables.  This is a feature that is tremendously powerful and will allow you to do things that you simply cannot do with the CH HOTAS.
2.  Program axes digitally.  Although you can do this with the CH software, Cougar allows you to program the axes digitally while retaining their analog capability.  I believe that the CH axes are either analog or digital but not both.  Also, the flexiblity with which the Cougar axes can be programmed is amazing.  The possiblities are almost endless.
3.  Simulate axes.  With Cougar, you can actually simulate axes that do not physically exist.  For example, if you want analog toe brake axes in AH but don't have toe brakes, there are any number of ways you can simulate left and right toe brake axes.  Very cool stuff.
4.  Trim, scale, lock, swap, reverse axes.  With Cougar, you can trim, lock, unlock, swap, reverse, scale, etc. your analog axes while you are in a sim.  For instance, you can program the joystick and rudder axes to be more responsive while you are dogfighting than when you are landing.  

Cougar's programmability is amazing.  The downside, of course, is that to access that capability, you have to spend some time figuring out how it all works.  On the other hand, there are a number of canned profiles that ship with the stick, and many people make their custom profiles available for download on the web.  I would be happy to send you mine if you like.

Rudders and toe brakes.  If there is a significant downside to the Cougar, this is it.  With CH, you can simply by a USB throttle, Fighterstick, and Pro Pedals and integrate them using CH's Control Manager software.  That gives you access to rudder and toe brake axes.  Cougar was designed to be compatible with gameport rudder sets, like the CH Pro Pedals (NOT USB), CH Pedals, TM Elite Pedals, etc.  Even so, none of those rudders, even the ones with toe brakes (i.e., CH Pro Pedals), will provide toe brake functionality with the Cougar.  You can modify the gameport CH Pro Pedals so that Cougar will recognize the rudder and toe brake axes, but a bit of rewiring is required (I have done this and it works great!)

In my opinion, both the CH and Cougar set-ups are excellent options and we as simmers are lucky to have the variety.  For my money, however, Cougar is the better choice.

- JNOV
« Last Edit: May 19, 2002, 12:46:07 PM by LoneStarBuckeye »

Offline Flossy

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Re: Cougar Owners Poll
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2002, 12:54:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DMax
I'm between a rock and a hard place trying to decide between buying a Cougar vs CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle USB system.
Having used a similar CH setup in the past (ForceFX in place of Fighterstick) I am definitely of the opinion that the Cougar HOTAS is much better, and well-worth the difference in price.  Very easy to program, though it can handle more complex programming if required...  :)
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Offline Max

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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2002, 01:18:42 PM »
LONESTARBUCKEYE...
Superbly helpful comparison and analysis! And thanks also to Math, Zeb, Flos and the rest :)

All seem to concur that the Cougar is built like a rock and offers limitless programability. Having grown accustom to the simple pleasures of my old MS Pre Pro & more recently, the Saitek Cyborg USB, I'm almost fearful of TOO many options at my command - LOL

One thing I'm a bit fuzzy on..the USB peds...I have a set of CH Pros. I get that I can't connect them via the stick due to the single gameport plug...but that I can run them in tandem with the HOTAS...but will not have toe brake capability....RIGHT??

Would a gameport/USB adaptor make sense or is it redundant?

Thanks for all the insight :)

DmdMax

Offline Zeb

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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2002, 01:29:08 PM »
If your Pro pedals are gameport type then they plug into the Cougar joystick, effectively converting them to USB ones!!

This has the advantage of letting the Cougar logic taylor the rudder axis to your own preference with things like linearity, deadband etc.

If you have USB ones then they will work alongside the Cougar plugged into a USB port.  With some games like Falcon this is a problem as Falcon only sees one USB controller.  

If you want toe brakes on gameport CH rudder pedals, this is covered elsewhere.

Offline LoneStarBuckeye

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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2002, 05:08:15 PM »
Just to add a note to Zeb's response, if you use CH USB Pro Pedals with AH, you can use the toe brakes to control the AH left and right toe brake analog inputs.  Using USB Pro Pedals with Cougar has two disadvantages.  As Zeb said, games that recognize only one controller (e.g., Falcon IV, Flanker 2.5, etc.) will not allow you to use both the Cougar and the rudder pedals as input devices.  The other disadvantage is that even in those games that do recognize multiple devices, you cannot use Cougar to digitally program the rudder and toe brake axes.

- JNOV

Offline Wanker

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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2002, 04:06:33 PM »
Using the CH Pro Pedals USB alongside of the Cougar should be as easy as it is running alongside any other USB controller in AH. Since AH will see both devices, you can easily setup the CH Pro Pedals to function as Rudder and toe brakes.

It will only be a problem with old games that can only see one USB device. But who has time to play anything other than AH anyway? ;)

Offline micka

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$270????
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2002, 12:34:56 PM »
you can get a cougar for $270, are you kidding, i paid £250 for mine (yes, thats right i am from the UK), hmm, that works out at, er....(1.6*250) is er....., erm..... a lot???

hehe *hits calc.exe*

$400, hmm, why do the words 'hook, line and sinker' seem rather appropriate???

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2002, 12:38:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by banana
Using the CH Pro Pedals USB alongside of the Cougar should be as easy as it is running alongside any other USB controller in AH. Since AH will see both devices, you can easily setup the CH Pro Pedals to function as Rudder and toe brakes.

It will only be a problem with old games that can only see one USB device. But who has time to play anything other than AH anyway? ;)


Mathman is having a great deal of trouble getting his usb pro pedals to work with his cougar. I dont know if he has it working yet or not.
Something about it not setting up the cougar as controler 1 so It not working...

Offline Wanker

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« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2002, 12:54:54 PM »
Quote
Mathman is having a great deal of trouble getting his usb pro pedals to work with his cougar. I dont know if he has it working yet or not.
Something about it not setting up the cougar as controler 1 so It not working..


He should be able to go into "game controllers" and set the Cougar to game ID 1 manually,  at least that's what worked for me. In fact, in WinXP you can move the devices up and down in the list, kind of like how you can move DNS servers in the networking config.

Did he say what OS he's using?

Offline wklink

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Cougar Owners Poll
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2002, 03:43:20 PM »
I think it has been worth it.  I have used the CH Combatstick/Pro Throttle/Pedals for years, then went to the Saitek X36, then to the F22/TQS digital and the Cougar is still the best of all of them.

Still it may be personal preference.  The Cougar is a stiff stick (no jokes please-ok maybe a couple) and a lot of guys don't like the effort it takes to move the plane around.  If you like a 'looser' feeling joystick then the CH line is the way to go.  It is very precise-from what I hear particularly the digital versions-but is not the arm twister the TM line has always been.
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Offline airspro

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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2002, 09:41:28 PM »
I just got done ordering one , suppose to ship May 30 th. Why you buggers couldn't shut up about how good it's suppose to be is beyond me :)

U suppose my wife will notice the differance ?
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Offline SOB

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Cougar Owners Poll
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2002, 01:07:11 AM »
http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23277

If you want it a little quicker, it looks like Flight Sim Central has 'em in stock and available for order :)


SOB
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