Author Topic: F4u4............  (Read 1534 times)

Offline hazed-

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F4u4............
« on: December 16, 2001, 10:28:00 AM »
Having been one of those that called for the perking of the F4uc I would like to clarify my reasons for believing it needed it....

1. It was overcrowding the arena!
2. It was deadly from inside 800 yards even in a snapshot and it wasnt particulary hard to down any aircraft with very short bursts
3. It was blue  :D

hehe ok basically it was down to its overpopulation of the arena.

FINALLY to the point of my post, the F4u4,

my question is simple, why is this aircraft perked for 60 points???
I flew it yesterday in the TA as MA was down and sure its very agile, climbs well, good dive etc but the guns are typical 50cal, ie it takes a fair amount of hits to down a target (though by no means hard to do with the 50s non-drop bullets) , where is the danger in this aircraft? have i missed something? is it faster than a tempest or something? I dont have info on this model so Im struggling to work out why its 60 perks to fly?

the F4uc was numerous, had the best 20mm in the game and often killed me from over 900 yards off my 6.It ruined the fun for me so i was well pleased to see its use reduced by perking it.The f4u4 just doesnt appear to be quite as dangerous as the f4uc to me.

have i missed something here?

ok heres a run down on my view of perk costs:

200 perks for me262 - overall good but maybe
150 a little easier to swallow when you lose one [150 perks?]

8 perks for f4uc - excellent works well but even this maybe needs slight reduction as they no longer flood the arena[4 perks?]

30 perks for ta152 - pretty close but i still feel it could come down some [20-25 perks?]

70 perks for tempest - maybe a little expensive but close [50-60 perks?]

60 perks for arado - probably right considering their rarity in WW2 but still a tad hi  :) [ maybe 30 or 40 perks? ]

60 perks for F4u4 - just dont get it..

Offline Swoop

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F4u4............
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2001, 11:39:00 AM »
The whole perk system is flawed anyway.  


It's all very well for these people that fly 200 hours a month, get 1000 kills a tour and therefore earn perkies like they grow on trees......but what about those that dont get that much time to fly?  Gotta save up for 2 months just for a Temp.  


And yet again Swoop agrees with Hazed, 60 pts for a plane that's arguably less lethal that a 1-C which costs 8 pts is daft.

 

Offline AKDejaVu

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F4u4............
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2001, 11:49:00 AM »
Quote
1. It was overcrowding the arena!

Planes don't overcrowd the arena.. people do.  And I seriously doubt that HTC would rather not have a crowded arena.

Perhaps was too prolific in the arena?  30% of the kills one tour were attributed to the F4u-1C.

Oh.. and I completely agree that the F4u-4 should be reduced in perk cost.  Considerably.  It should be comparable to the Ta-152 in cost... both between 15 and 20.

AKDejaVu

Offline J_A_B

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F4u4............
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2001, 11:51:00 AM »
"60 pts for a plane that's arguably less lethal that a 1-C which costs 8 pts is daft."

Should plane perk prices be solely based upon their weapons?  That's the 1C's only advantage over the -4.  In terms of performance the -1C is at best average.

I think the F4U4 price is about right; maybe 50 would be better but no less.  The F4U-4 is substantially better than any non-perked plane, and IMO is also substantially better than the F4U-1C and the Ta-152.  In terms of ammo load and performance through altitude range it is even better than the Tempest.

Again, I think the relative rarity of Tempests, F4U-4's and Ta-152's has more to do with most people saving up for a 262, than with anything being too expensive.

J_A_B

Offline Wotan

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F4u4............
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2001, 11:55:00 AM »
personnally i say raise all perk costs.

so what if ya cant afford it  :)

theres plenty of things I wouldn't mind having  :)

200 perks fer a 262 is fine

I've flown about 16 hours this tour I've earned plenty for any plane I want.

I dont think the game will be any better having more perk planes flying around.

Some would argue it would actually be worse off.

With the exception of a perk vehicle I dont see a need for anymore perk craft for awhile.

I know some folks feel cheated because they miss out of flying a perk.

Well so what..... if they really "need" to fly a perk craft they will fly planes with a hi eny value kill planes with a lo eny value.

you fly a g6 alot

kill 10 spits with it 35/13= 2.3 per spit ix

get 10 of umm 23.33 land it multiply by 1.25

and you get 30 perks....ta152 time  :)

I like the perk system if anything I make perks cost a bit more....

Some folks dont care anything about umm I know a guy thats got 6k perks and could careless about perk planes.

If ya wanna fly umm do the work like everyone else......

no free lunch  :)

Offline Yeager

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F4u4............
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2001, 11:59:00 AM »
It was a pure Bullsh*t dweeb ride with pure bullsh*t dweeb cannon that absolutely fed into the gangbang furball stick a quarter into it arcade manufacturing pinball wizard  nonesense that had a very negative impact on gameplay in mine and many others opinions.

The reason F4U1Cs have become *regular* rides is what I *suspect* may have been some corrections made to the impossible energy retention and absence of full weight that made the damned thing so dweeby to begin with-->In My Opinion.  I could be wrong about FM changes but they dont behave in flight the way they used to in my experience.

The F4U-4 is damned fast at altitude.  I havent checked it against others at various alts but I have chased down several 190Ds and 51Ds at high altitude in the thing.  Still, I prefer the F4U-1.

 :)

 
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Offline Durr

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F4u4............
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2001, 12:14:00 PM »
There has always been lots of debate about perk points with some people hating the concept and others loving it.  Most of the proponants of the system say it helps keep certain planes rare that should be rare (i.e. unbalanceing planes or those that were in real life rare).  Those that oppose the system usually do so on the grounds that you should be able to fly what you want when you want.  I can understand and sympathize with both positions to some degree although I personally favor the perk system.  One reason that I like it is one that I have not seen presented on here yet.  Quite simply, it is the fact that the perk system gives you something to work towards.  Why do you think so many offline games disable certain items until you beat certain levels etc.  Example, the racing game Need For Speed doesnt allow you to drive certain cars until you have beaten certain levels and that unlocks them.  Madden Football gives you extra bonus teams for winning certain games.  These are play incentives that make it fun to try to win.  The way I see it, perks do the same thing to some degree.  That is one of the main reasons I like the perk system.  I wish that there were more things to buy using perks though, especially ground vehicles and bombers.  I also wouldnt mind seeing a few more fighters perked very lightly, namely the La-7 and the Spitfire IX and possibly the P-51D.  Four perks at most for these aircraft.  I agree with the above posters that the F-4U4 should be reduced in price somewhat, to at least the level of the C model.  Also, for those that complain about how hard it is to win perks, its actually pretty easy.  Im not in the top tier of fighter pilots in AH yet by any means although Im learning, nonetheless I find its pretty easy to run up the perks.  I can easily make fighter perks at the rate of 12 or more per hour.  Its just a matter of using aircraft that are lower rated like the C.202 and C.205 etc, and surviving the mission.  Shoot down just two or three enemies in a fight and make it home and you should get 6-9 points depending on what you killed.  One other fun thing about perk points that I like is the fact that when you are flying perk planes the intensity level is ratcheted way up since you actually have something to lose.  Even if you have so many points that you can afford the loss, it still impacts you more than the loss of a free fighter.  Some of my most enjoyable missions in here are the ones where I was sweating out a close battle in a Me-262.  Of course losing them is not much fun (been there, done that, 2 Arados and 1 262 lost so far!) but its worth it.

Offline Tac

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F4u4............
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2001, 02:08:00 PM »
ALL perk planes except the jets should be at around 15 perks.

Arado should be 25 perks, 262 should be 100-150 perks.

The chog is controlled now, the 152 and tempest and f4u4 are overpriced imo. A tempest is mighty fast..but its got a minimal ammo load. F4u4.. its basically a P-51D with tempest like accel and 6 .50's. The 152.. not better than a d9 at below 20k.

All the above only have accel advantage over the 51D and hi alt performance advantage over the la7. That is why their cost should be lowered to 10 to 15 perks. Heck, if the chog, which is a MONSTER on its own, and you are almost guaranteed to kill a boatload of cons with it...costs 8 perks and its rarely seen now, you'd think the tempests, f4u4's and 152's would be seen commonly at 10-15 perk cost? If at all, that would drain the player's perks more quickly, considering the la7, 51d/b, 190d9 and 109g10 and yak9U have a damn good chance at smacking them down.

 
That some people are online more than others and get more perks as a result, yes. So what? You saying that by lowering the perk costs or removing the perk system just because others dont fly enough to get perk plane is even WORSE. You would see all those people that fly online more than you do flying those perk planes.. MORE often. And if they're free, heck, thats all you'll see and they will out-fly you in them because they will get more flying time IN them.

Also, flying the la7, the n1k and other planes of its ilk will not get you any decent perkies.

Try a 205, its an EXCELLENT plane and it gets perks mighty quickly. Grab a yak9U, a 38L, an early 109 model, f4u-1... all these are great airplanes and will give you 3X the perkies you would get in those late war monster rides so many are addicted to.

Offline whels

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F4u4............
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2001, 03:38:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hazed-:
Having been one of those that called for the perking of the F4uc I would like to clarify my reasons for believing it needed it....

1. It was overcrowding the arena!
2. It was deadly from inside 800 yards even in a snapshot and it wasnt particulary hard to down any aircraft with very short bursts
3. It was blue   :D

hehe ok basically it was down to its overpopulation of the arena.

FINALLY to the point of my post, the F4u4,

my question is simple, why is this aircraft perked for 60 points???
I flew it yesterday in the TA as MA was down and sure its very agile, climbs well, good dive etc but the guns are typical 50cal, ie it takes a fair amount of hits to down a target (though by no means hard to do with the 50s non-drop bullets) , where is the danger in this aircraft? have i missed something? is it faster than a tempest or something? I dont have info on this model so Im struggling to work out why its 60 perks to fly?

the F4uc was numerous, had the best 20mm in the game and often killed me from over 900 yards off my 6.It ruined the fun for me so i was well pleased to see its use reduced by perking it.The f4u4 just doesnt appear to be quite as dangerous as the f4uc to me.

have i missed something here?

ok heres a run down on my view of perk costs:

200 perks for me262 - overall good but maybe
150 a little easier to swallow when you lose one [150 perks?]

8 perks for f4uc - excellent works well but even this maybe needs slight reduction as they no longer flood the arena[4 perks?]

30 perks for ta152 - pretty close but i still feel it could come down some [20-25 perks?]

70 perks for tempest - maybe a little expensive but close [50-60 perks?]

60 perks for arado - probably right considering their rarity in WW2 but still a tad hi   :) [ maybe 30 or 40 perks? ]

60 perks for F4u4 - just dont get it..


Hazed,

read this. from here http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4U-4.html  

So, perhaps now is a good time to summarize the performance of the F4U-4. Let’s compare it to the aircraft generally believed to be the best all-around fighter of World War Two, the North American P-51D Mustang.

Speed: The -4 was about 10 mph faster than the P-51D at the altitude where the Mustang developed it’s highest speed.
Advantage: F4U-4

Climb: The -4 Corsair was a remarkable climber despite its size and weight. It could out-climb the Mustang by nearly 800 fpm.
Advantage: F4U-4

Maneuverability: The F4U-4 was one of the very best. According to Jeffrey Ethell: "Of all World War II fighters, the Corsair was probably the finest in air-to-air combat for a balance of maneuverability and responsiveness. The -4, the last wartime version is considered by many pilots who have flown the entire line to be the best of them all….." Indeed, the F4U-4 had few, if any equals at the business of ACM (air combat maneuvering).
Advantage: F4U-4

Armament: Equipped with either six .50 caliber machine guns or four 20mm cannons, the -4 had more than adequate firepower to destroy any aircraft. It was the premier load carrying single engine fighter of the war. It could get airborne with bomb loads exceeding that of some twin engine medium bombers.
Advantage: F4U-4

Survivability: There was no other single engine fighter flown during the war that could absorb greater battle damage than the Corsair and still get home. Even the USAAF admitted that the F4U was a more rugged airframe than the tank-like P-47 Thunderbolt. That is a remarkable admission. The big Pratt & Whitney radial engine would continue to run and make power despite have one or more cylinders shot off. The P-51D, on the other hand, could be brought down by a single rifle bullet anywhere in the cooling system.
Advantage: F4U-4

Useful range: The F4U-4 had roughly the same radius of action as the Republic P-47D-25-RE, which flew escort missions deep into Germany as far as Berlin (the P-47D-25-RE had 100 gallons of additional internal fuel capacity). Yet, the P-51D still maintained a big edge in endurance.
Advantage: P-51D

Ease of flight: Despite gaining the nickname of "Ensign Eliminator", the F4U series tendency to roll under torque was no more difficult to handle than any other high powered fighter of the era. Some who have flown both the Corsair and the Mustang state without hesitation that the P-51 exhibited a greater propensity to roll on its back than did the F4U. Moreover, the Corsair was a far more forgiving aircraft when entering a stall. Although it would drop its right wing abruptly, the aircraft gave plenty of advanced warning of an impending stall by entering a pronounced buffeting about 6-7 mph before the wing dropped. The P-51, however, gave no warning of an impending stall. When it did stall, it was with a total loss of pilot control, rolling inverted with a severe aileron snatch. Recovery usually used up 500 ft or more of altitude. It was not uncommon for Mustangs to spin out of tight turns during dogfights. The F4U could also be flown at speeds more than 30 mph slower than that at which the Mustang stalled. In other words, the P-51 could not hope to follow a Corsair in a low speed turning fight.
Advantage: F4U-4

Outward Visibility: The Corsair provided for very good visibility from the cockpit. However, few if any WWII fighters offered the pilot a better view than the P-51D. The earlier P-51B was inferior to the F4U. Nonetheless, it was the D model that made up the bulk of Mustang production.
Advantage: P-51D

Finally there is an area in which the P-51 cannot compete at all. The F4U was designed to operate from an aircraft carrier. What this provides for is a utility that is unmatched by the better land based fighters of WWII. The ability to operate at sea or from shore can never be over-valued.
Obvious advantage: F4U-4


In conclusion, it would be hard, no, impossible to dismiss the F4U-4 as the leading candidate for the "best fighter/bomber of WWII". Furthermore, there is strong evidence that it very well may be the best piston engine fighter (to see combat) period. Certainly, everyone can agree on this: The F4U-4 Corsair was at the pinnacle of WWII piston engine technology and performance. When people debate the relative merits of the great fighter aircraft of WWII, they would be remiss in not acknowledging the F4U-4 as one of the very best, and in the educated opinion of many, "the best" fighter aircraft to fly into combat in World War II.

whels

Offline SOB

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F4u4............
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2001, 05:15:00 PM »
I believe the -4 should cost less perkies so that I can fly it more.


Thank you,

SOB
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Offline pimpjoe

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F4u4............
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2001, 05:58:00 PM »
i belive that the F4U-4 should be perked...but maybe not as much. maybe around 15-20 perks. BUT i also think that maybe the p51D,F4U1-D,spit9, and 190D-9 should also be perked at around the 5-10 perk area. these planes have a huge advantage over everything else, and are most of the planes that you see in the air. plus it would give an extra incentive to get home. too many people are gettin up and not caring if they die as much as if they were in a perk plane. i feel that if these planes were perked at 5-10 perks they would still be afordable to fly on a regular basis plus there would be an extra incentive to get home. i.e.-losing your perks.

my 2 cents

Offline Revvin

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F4u4............
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2001, 06:13:00 PM »
I have often wondered why it's perked so high, I don't see it as being that uber so excuse my ignorance please but how many F4U4's saw action in WW2? If it was as many as I think then I don't see why its being perked so high unless it was a rare bird.

I don't fly as much as most and when I do I tend to fly heavy fighters or bombers but it still takes me a while to save those perkies up. I have only just recently got enough perks for a 262 after re-opening my old account a month or so ago but I'm not really bothered, if I decide to blow em all on a 262 then so be it or I may just have a few Tempests, but when I do I'll know I've not only earned them but I won't be unbalancing the arena by using it because of its perk status which is why I say let em stay as they are but maybe look at the F4U4.

[ 12-16-2001: Message edited by: Revvin ]

Offline Kieran

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F4u4............
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2001, 06:26:00 PM »
Just which planes should not be perked? It seems we have covered this ground just last week, but ah... maybe we are destined to repeat?

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2001, 07:17:00 PM »
Kieren:  They want to keep perking the 5 most popular planes until the only unperked plane is their favorite and everybody flies only that.  It's about variety don't you see?    :o

Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2001, 08:31:00 PM »
Very good posts Hazed and Whels...  :) I have flown the F4u-F quite often and find it very sweet plane.But a tad overpriced..I say...40 perks?  :cool:
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