Author Topic: Turn rate (Read 835 times)

Duedel · « **on:** May 21, 2002, 09:02:03 AM »

Does anyone have a table including the sustained turn rate and radius of the AH planes at low alts?
If not a simple table of which plane outturns which would be great too, for example:

Best turners (low alts):

1. Hurrie I
2. Spit I
3. Bf109E4
...
67. B17
68. FW190D9

Thank u very much

Shift · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2002, 11:28:32 AM »

Duedel, I do know of a link to a website that has this sort of info, but being me I have forgot it and can't find it. Please do not give up on this (if no tohere people reply with an answer) because i will hopefully find it soon for you.

Shift

Duedel · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2002, 04:42:53 PM »

Shift · « **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2002, 07:18:36 AM »

Duedel, I have looked and i don't know of a site that shows turn rates.

I don't think you will find one that exists. This is because it is very hard to make an experiment that you can do accuratley. And to repeat it exactly the same with other planes to make it a fair test.

Sorry for dissapointing news:(

Shift

Duedel · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2002, 07:36:04 AM »

Hmmm... np Shift thx for reply

but i won't give up. It would even be cool if someone could post a table based on his experience / know how. Which's the best (low alt) turner which's the worst. Which is the 2nd best and so on.
I would do this but my knowledge is restricted to only a few planes. But.. i can make a (itty little) start:

1. A6M
2. SpitV
3. N1K2
4. Yak9U
5. Bf109G2
6. 190A5
7. P51D
8. 190D9

Wher do i have to insert Bf190E4, Bf110G4, F6F, F4U's, La7, P51D and so on?
Any idea someone?

Lephturn · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2002, 08:05:13 AM »

It depends. Are you talking sustained turn speed? Turn rate or turn radius?

It would really take a concerted testing effort to conclusively sort this out.

If you throw planes at me in pairs though, I'll do my best to differentiate them.

Duedel · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2002, 08:27:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lephturn
It depends. Are you talking sustained turn speed? Turn rate or turn radius?

It would really take a concerted testing effort to conclusively sort this out.

If you throw planes at me in pairs though, I'll do my best to differentiate them.

Hi Lephturn,

i doubt I could get diagrams or numbers for turn rate and turn radius for all AH planes so I guess the most easiest table would be the one I described above. The only information one could get from this table would be which plane outturns (in a sustained turn at corner speed at low alts) the other plane. Turn radius and turn rate or turn speed (as numbers) are not mentioned cause this would be too much work to compute the data (if it does not already exist). I know that this is not exactly scientific but rather a feeling but per example I question myself if I could do a turn fight in my 190A5 with a La7.

Thank u for ur offer m8

Shift · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2002, 09:18:18 AM »

a few planes from from my knowledge

1. a6m
2.seafire
2.spitv
3.niki, (but only when using flaps)
4.spit1
5.spit1X

these first five will almost turn exactly the same, so cuold be mixed around.

6.yak
7.109F4

I am not sure abput these two and the others ,it's just an edjucated guess. i wouldn't rely on them but these are worth testing.

Shift

HFMudd · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2002, 09:50:08 AM »

I don't have any time in the 109F series but my feeling is that the Yak has the same, if not a tiny bit smaller, sustained turning radius than the 109-G2. My Yak vs. 109 turn fights tend to be rather uneventful affairs.

I should note that my ACM in knife fights is rather poor and I try to avoid them.

After drifting from plane to plane, the Yak-9U is the one that grabbed me and held.

The Yak:
- Turns like a 109
- Rolls like a 190
- Hits like a, hmmmm, dunno, but I'm out of ammo anyway...

Lephturn · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2002, 11:05:22 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Duedel

Hi Lephturn,

i doubt I could get diagrams or numbers for turn rate and turn radius for all AH planes so I guess the most easiest table would be the one I described above. The only information one could get from this table would be which plane outturns (in a sustained turn at corner speed at low alts) the other plane. Turn radius and turn rate or turn speed (as numbers) are not mentioned cause this would be too much work to compute the data (if it does not already exist). I know that this is not exactly scientific but rather a feeling but per example I question myself if I could do a turn fight in my 190A5 with a La7.

Thank u for ur offer m8

Well the problem is, "out turn" isn't something I can quantify. I can say one will turn inside the other at a given speed with a smaller turning radius, or one will have a better turn rate... but basically any plane can "out turn" any other plane in the right situation.

A5 vs. La7... I'm betting the FW wins this one. I don't fly the A5 much, except in the CT, but the La7 doesn't turn that well. It would probably be close enough that the guy with more E going in would win either way. No pilot worth his salt is EVER going to sustained turn battle in these two planes anyway... it would not be a smart move.

Soda · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2002, 11:13:39 AM »

I think the N1K turns slightly better than any Spit, even the SpitV. It is pretty close but a good N1K pilot will be able to out-turn the SpitV sustained. It's close, but slowly the N1K will win.

I think the Hurri II should be in that top 5 list somewhere, it seems to turn like crazy when slow but eventually runs out of power to maintain it. Still, it can turn like crazy too for a while.

-Soda
The Assassins.

RightF00T · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2002, 12:52:05 PM »

Rather than relying on turnrate to defeat a La7/N1K/Spit, I would place my bets on better ACM. The only way to defeat them IMO is to place your lift vector(fancy language-the direction you're turning;)) towards the area where that Spit will be when your plane has completed the turn and your guns will be facing. If that doesn't make sense I'm sure Lephturn has similar/more descriptive words for you

Urchin · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2002, 01:34:24 PM »

La7 will outturn any of the 190s in a sustained turn at just about any speed, in my experience. It will also outturn the 109G-10 and -6, but the -2 will out turn it.

I'd guess that the list would go something like this-

1. Hurricane 1
2. Spitfire 1
3. A6M5 (2 and 3 could be reversed, I've seen both happen)
4. Spit V (and seafire)
5. Hurricane 2C
6. N1K2
7. Spit IX (again, 5-6 could be reversed, I've seen both happen)
8. 109E4
9. Yak9U
10. P38 (with flaps)
11. F6F-5 (with flaps)
12. 109F4
13. Yak-9T
14. 109G2
15. La-7

I know there are more, I just can't think of em right now. The Ki-61 is an airplane I'm not really sure of, I'm fairly sure it can't out-turn an F6F or a P-38, but I'm not sure where it would fit in. The C202 would be right around the 109F-4.

Duedel · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2002, 02:17:44 PM »

Thx all for reply. Yes Urchin my feeling about La7 and 190's is the same.
Let me explain why i ask about a "turn rate list". Sure a good pilot seldom gets into a situation where he has to turn fight in an E-Fighter. But cause we fly in the MA or CT and sometimes one loses SA a fight could degenerate to a turn fight even if ur Mr. E-Fighter:). And don't forget a sustained turn at corner speed definitly belongs to ACM (or was it BFM

)! So ur sitting there in ur P-38 and asking yourself what to do with this Tempest at ur 6. Ur E is low and his maybe too. To get him into a sustained turn in this situation maybe an option but do u know if ur plane would outturn his? Maybe (yes sure ur right Lephturn) his initial turn rate is much greater than ur's and he could get a snap shot, but I won't discuss this here cause this would be another column in the table.

Vector · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2002, 10:28:41 AM »

Duedel, check Hoof's WB performance pages. Yes it's WB birds, but I think they'll give you some idea of turning abilities and other performaces too.
Turning
Corner velocity time and radii

Quote

So ur sitting there in ur P-38 and asking yourself what to do with this Tempest at ur 6

Tempest at your 6 means lots of trouble, no matter in what plane you are. IMO Tempest is one of the best fighters in game if not the best. Besides its poor charger at high alts (and still it's fast in there), it doesn't lack anything.