Author Topic: 190's for dUmMiEs.....??  (Read 744 times)

Offline Lephturn

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2002, 07:23:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Soviet
Being a Luftwaffe type and liking the 190 far more than the 109 I have to say the 190 is a great plane if you treat it right.

It's strenghts:

-VERY VERY GOOD diving performance, this plane doesn't compress easy


It has decent dive performance... but I think you stressed this a bit much.  Don't go thinking you can out-dive a Jug, Hellcat, Lightening, or Corsair.  They'll eat your lunch.  The FW can get away from the Jug and Hog from low speed, but from mid to high speed the Ami planes will catch you.

I'd just say good dive performance.  The FW's real strong point is it's accelleration from low speed.  That means that it can recover well from things like scissors and other overshoot moves.  Often hard pulls followed by short unloaded accellerations will gain the FW pilot an advantage over planes that don't accellerate so well, winnign you the E battle.  While the FW's accelleration is excellent, it's dive is merely "OK" in my book. :)

Offline Sachs

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2002, 07:29:52 AM »
Outdiving a 38 is easy, that plane compresses at the drop of a hat.  The F4u's I dont worry about either.  The 51 and La-7 wil eat you up you might be able to outrun the 51 though once you get down to the deck.  D-9 is my choice ride this tour,  If you get over the weaknesses it has it is quite fun to fight in.  Don't get in low speed gfights and keep your E up and you will have them scratching their heads.  190 F8 isn't to bad but has no elevator control what so ever.  A8 and F8 speeds are quite near the same it also has  a higher deck  speed then the A5 and rolls quite nice.

Offline Wilbus

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2002, 07:42:04 AM »
My turn for what RatPenat? :)

Diving performance of the 190's is is much what Lephturn said, good, not great, not on par with P51 and F4u. There are few planes that compress as late as the 190 though, P51 and F4u are both slightly better, specially when it comes to high speed rolls (high speed I mean HIGH speed, 550+ or so for A version).
Guns? Godo enough, 4x20's on the A8 makes the enemies die fast, although 4 gunned hispano birds have better armament.

The A8, if close enough, is the best buff killer after the 262, using 2x30mm and 2x20mm no buff will surive.

Learn how to scissors, and learn it WELL! Can save your arse and get you kills and it will alow you to hear alot of whines and be acused of cheating (and what can be better then that?) :D

A8 and F8 are the two worst turners in the entire game.

Some tips, use AFT tank first down to about 25% or less, will improve your turn rate some what, use 2 guns in the A5 (MG FF's aren't worth jack squat), use 4 guns (my prefered armament is 4x20) in the A8. Learn high speed delfection shooting, learn it well and train on hitting spits and nikis turning in 90+ degree hard banks, will surprise them.

RatPenat, was this what you were talking about? :)
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

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Offline RatPenat

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2002, 08:14:07 AM »
no more secrets??
how do you do scissors? I can't never follow you

Offline Lephturn

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2002, 08:32:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sachs
Outdiving a 38 is easy, that plane compresses at the drop of a hat.


Yep, but it will accellerate extremely well in the early dive... so better hope you live long enough to compress the 38.  It's not the high-speed dive machine the others are, but it's very dangerous from an accelleration point of view.  Actually the 38 is the one plane that the FW driver should choose to dive away from provided you start with enough separation or from a high enough speed.  On the flip side you don't want to play the accelleration card vs. the 38 because it accellerates very well also.

Quote
Originally posted by Sachs
The F4u's I dont worry about either.  The 51 and La-7 wil eat you up you might be able to outrun the 51 though once you get down to the deck.  D-9 is my choice ride this tour,  If you get over the weaknesses it has it is quite fun to fight in.  Don't get in low speed gfights and keep your E up and you will have them scratching their heads.  190 F8 isn't to bad but has no elevator control what so ever.  A8 and F8 speeds are quite near the same it also has  a higher deck  speed then the A5 and rolls quite nice.


Well the D9 is obviously going to be the best diver of the lot.  As a Jug driver though, there is nothing I like better than an FW trying to dive away from me.  Same in the Hellcat.  You might live in the D9, but the other FW's won't do as well.  From mid to high speed, the big Ami planes will out-accellerate the FW's in a dive... even the D9.  The F4U's are right up there with the best divers in the game... even in a Jug I won't dive from an F4U or a Hellcat.... they'll get ya.  Sure, the 51 and La7 will run you down in a level chase... but we are talking about diving here, above max level speeds by a considerable amount.  Even the extremely fast La7 can be left in the dust in a high speed dive by the big Ami iron.  Yep, the La7 will win when the race flattens out... but in a dive nothing hits 550+ faster than the big Ami iron! :)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2002, 08:34:54 AM by Lephturn »

Offline Hristo

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2002, 08:33:03 AM »
From an ex-109 pilot: the 190 is superior plane for air combat.

It is pretty simple. 190 is made to fight at high speeds and is well equipped for those short snapshot opportunities. While 109 is a superior plane for 1 on 1 dueling type of fights, it is never as good in many vs many as the 190 is. To make a kill, 109 has to slow down. Everything takes longer, enemy has more time for evasive actions, and most important - slowing down in a crowded arena like AH is a big no-no. Flying the 109 in early AH beta was easier, slow down today and someone will nail you. When in 190, you have the luxury of making kills while staying fast, great snapshot lethality, much better visibility, greater range, durability and dive. Even when missing half wing you can make a kill if staying fast ;).

The 190 is not a dueler's plane. Of course you have some tricks to resort to when pressed into a duel, but you generally don't want to be drawn into such types of engagements. Instead, work for your advantage before the fight. First in term of alt advantage, then speed. Just be sure to have enough speed when entering a fight. Always watch the speed indicator - never let it go below 300 IAS. You will be much safer that way and yes - much more lethal. Your enemies will have less time to react.

When in fight, don't go for E conserving moves if they slow you down. Use nose down maneuvers instead, you wan't to stay fast and come up at your enemy guns blazing. Use the 4 20mm, flying around with only 2 20mm is a waste.

Practice gunnery and snapshots. As much as 90% of your kills will come from snapshots. While you pack a great punch, do not HO. 9 out of 10 planes in AH will take the HO. You will kill them, but they will probably damage you or even kill you.

At high speeds you can even turn inside several plane types. If you chase a Spit at 400 IAS and he goes into a turn, you can turn inside it and pull enough lead to kill it. Just be sure that other enemies are not around, better stay fast then. Fast roll rate helps you match enemy moves at high speeds - you can spot when they roll into a turn or Split S, roll to follow and pull quickly and ping them. This is one of the greatest things when flying the 190. 190A is much better at high speed instantenous (sp) maneuvering than the D-9, which is simply a different plane.

Speed is your defense. Never allow yourself to fight from disadvantage, why would you give your enemy an easy kill. When he gets the advantage, you better be on the way to pack of friendlies or even better - your ack. But in the desperate situations you will be forced to defend yourself. High speed again. Keep rolling, preferably out of sight of the enemy. You can change your lift vector orientation quite fast in that plane. Roll under enemy's nose, use any scissors you can think of, just stay fast. Against most fast planes you can create an overshoot easy. Practice flying while looking back. match enemy moves. Be ready for a brief snapshot and then go back to being fast again. Maybe a time to extend too.

Use split S while in 109 it is not a smart move generally, it has sense when flying 190. Quite a few get surprised by it, especially when you get out of it guns blazing.

If high enemies are around be sure to pull into them when they dive on you. try to create separation or take a HO if there is no other way. Be careful about turning your back to the enemy.

Even though defense in 190A can be fun against some planes (P51 mostly), it is fighting a losing fight. Remember that.

find a wingman, or better, a squad. No plane benefits out of group flying as the 190. While fairly hopeless in 1 on 1, it rules in many vs many type of fights.

And last thing:


Vulch, vulch, vulch !

Offline MANDOBLE

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2002, 08:44:04 AM »
Too tired to develop a long reply.
Keep away from Dora, it is fast, but a brick at speed, also a brick when slow. A series are much better MA fighters.

Offline Hristo

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2002, 08:47:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lephturn


... but in a dive nothing hits 550+ faster than the big Ami iron! :)


Errr, I can think of one LW plane in AH that can do that. It has two engines, but no prop ;)

When this baby enters a dive, even the Jugs are left floating like baloons :D
« Last Edit: May 23, 2002, 08:52:28 AM by Hristo »

Offline Wilbus

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2002, 08:59:00 AM »
Scissors

Good link to get started with the scissors, made for WB but should work well for AH.

Most important thing is to be agressive and make fairly big turns, don't be a sissy and turn 10 degrees each way after the reversals, will do nothing then blow some E and give the enemy an even easier target.

Be agressive, very agressive, don't stall it, fly it on the edge of what is possible and be gentle, change altitude in each turn, nose up/nose down to throw off his snapshots, don't let him regain his advantage.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline mason22

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2002, 09:41:23 AM »
that's good stuff Hristo, Leph and Soviet. thanks again!

Offline milnko

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2002, 10:27:35 AM »
Don't listen to them guys Mason, stay away from the 190.

If ya ever get any perk points try the Ta152 now that's a Man's Plane. Twin 20's and 30's, lotsa speed, stable gun platform, sleek, comes standard with an 8 track tape player and automatic drip coffee maker. (allows me to brew a cup while disco'n out to my favorite BeeGees "Stayin' Alive" tape) :D

Just hang out at 30k, sit back and wait fer the buffs to climb to you!

Offline Soviet

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2002, 11:24:28 AM »
when i meant diving performance I actually stated it wrong.  What I meant was it's high speed performance combined with energy retention plus decent dive make it a great platform to provide boom and zoom attacks at very high speed.

I'm not really the dogfighting type.  I'm the type that likes to sneak in and kill some guy by surprise.  I will E fight if it comes to dogfighting though.

Offline MadBirdCZ

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2002, 11:25:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by milnko

Just hang out at 30k, sit back and wait fer the buffs to climb to you!



Spent some time doing this 2 days ago... After I sent 7th buff down in flames although I still had plenty of fuel and quite enuff  ammo it started to be a bit boring tho so I landed and rolled 202 for a change :D

Speaking of fuel how much do you guys take in Ta-152? I take DT + 75 internal and still the plane seems to fly for ages with this config... ? :)

Offline Wilbus

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2002, 11:46:19 AM »
Same fuel loadout for me Madbird.

Did a test a while back, the TA152 on internal fuel has got about 20% longer flight time then P51D on internal fuel.

Not sure what the flight time with DT's will be but I suspect the P51 with two tanks will stay up a while longer.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Vermillion

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190's for dUmMiEs.....??
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2002, 12:39:13 PM »
Good Advice all around!

I prefer the Dora to the earlier varients myself, but thats because I prefer to fight the unfair fight, and rarely fight a "fair" 1 v 1.  And if I loose advantage, I prefer to run away to fight another day.  But I do usually stick around long enough to make it interesting.

Leph, while I agree that in a straight dive, the American iron will ultimately get the fastest the soonest, only the P51 comes close to worrying me while in a Dora.  Sure the P47 will dive faster, but combine the Dora's dive speed with its incredible high speed roll rates and I will bleed off the Jug's advantage, then use my superior acceleration to get enough seperation to survive the fight. Once we're on the deck the Jug's slow top speed will allow me to get away.  The only time this is truely dangerous is if the Jug pilot is an excellent shot. Like you or Drex.