Author Topic: Please, can't someone stop this terrible pain? (Read 755 times)

Sabre · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2002, 03:37:17 PM »

Thanks, Iron...I'll keep that in mind.

Sabre

AKIron · « **Reply #16 on:** May 23, 2002, 03:48:39 PM »

One more thing Sabre, don't know if you've used a TM stick before but they eliminated the RAW codes. You may now use USB codes. They work differently in the following manner. I used raw codes to press a key and hold it. Then another action to generate the raw code to release the key. Through trial and error I discovered that the usb code to press a key is cumulative. In other words, press a button that cause a key down code 4 times and you'll have to press the other button 4 times before it is released. Easy to work around but different than raw codes.

SOB · « **Reply #17 on:** May 23, 2002, 04:51:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
While I am getting used to the springs, some say they are about 30% stiffer than the TM F22 springs, I'd rather have the finer control I had with less stiff springs. So far TM has yet to respond to my request.

They may be 30% as stiff as the F22, but definitely not 30% stiffer. The F22 had quite a bit more tension than the Cougar does. And contrary to what you might think, it was very easy and natural to get fine control out of the F22 - the stiffer springs helped, at least for me.

SOB

AKIron · « **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2002, 06:01:14 PM »

Well, what I'm reading at frugals world is that some have been putting the springs from their TM F22's in their Cougar's and are getting about 30% less stiffness.

AKIron · « **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2002, 06:04:22 PM »

Also, the trouble I have with the fine control is very close to the center of the stick. The "break away" pressure is so great that I'm getting a lot of bounce. I don't get this with the much weaker springs in my FLCS. Time to adjust the dampening I guess.

SOB · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2002, 07:51:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
Also, the trouble I have with the fine control is very close to the center of the stick. The "break away" pressure is so great that I'm getting a lot of bounce. I don't get this with the much weaker springs in my FLCS. Time to adjust the dampening I guess.

I've been getting used to this as well, but I guess I assumed the opposite. If you had stiffer springs in there, at some point the "break away" pressure would be less than the pressure required to continue pushing the handle to the end of it's axis. Of course, I'm coming from an F22, which didn't have the "break away" problem either.

I heard the same thing here in the Hardware section about the F22 springs making the Cougar less tight. I guess the springs themselves might possibly be of a lower tension, but with the base of the handle being closer to the pivot point on the F22 and the handle itself being much lighter, that may account for the higher tension. There's no doubt tho', the F22 is stiffer next to the Cougar.

SOB

AKIron · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2002, 08:06:04 PM »

If the stick were uniformly stiff I think I'd find it easier to adjust to. However, when going diagonal you're fight both springs and the tension is noticeably different. Since TM isn't responding to my queries I'll keep working on adapting. I have found it somewhat easier to use without the rubber boot.

Vermillion · « **Reply #22 on:** May 24, 2002, 07:03:15 AM »

Thats why I gave my Thrustmaster stick away (literally) and bought my CH Gear, the damn springs were so stiff it felt like I was flying a 109 at 550mph all the time.

CH just seemed to find a good medium between keeping slop out of their sticks, while not making it feel like you were wrestling an Anaconda every time you fly.

I know you Cougar guys are all excited about your new toys

But I still prefer the CH Pro Gear

milnko · « **Reply #23 on:** May 24, 2002, 07:30:05 AM »

I got mine from FSC a day after SOB got his, I highly recommend FSC to anyone thinking of ordering a Cougar.

I used Revvin's macro file and the Foxy GUI to prog the stick, programming was a piece of cake.

I agree with everyone that the springs take a bit to get used to, especially coming from using a Saitek or MS stick.

I'm currently using CH Pro USB rudder pedals, and although there is no problem while running AH, I'd like to get a gameport set of rudders to use with older games like Falcon 4 and Janes F-15, so I'll probably buy a set of the new TM pedals designed for use with the Cougar when they come out.

I was reading on Fugal's site about someone who'd gotten some Crown Royal bags and was stenciling em up with "Remove before Flight" and using them as covers for the stick and throttle. I thought that was a great idea (except for the stenciling part) and got my wife (whom is a bartender) to bring home a few. I figure when ya spend close to $300 on a piece of hardware ya just gotta keep that dust off of it

Midnight · « **Reply #24 on:** May 24, 2002, 08:09:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vermillion
Thats why I gave my Thrustmaster stick away (literally) and bought my CH Gear, the damn springs were so stiff it felt like I was flying a 109 at 550mph all the time.

What is it with you guys and complaining that springs are too stiff? What are you, a bunch of limp-wristed weaklings? For cod's sake, get a little exercise or something. We are talking overcoming a pound or two of resistance. Maybe we could ask HTC to paint you a cute little pink plane to fly around in

Tell you what I'll do. I will get a pull scale and find out the pounds of force required to move the stick from center to all extremes. I will be willing to wager we are talking 4lbs at the most.

AKIron · « **Reply #25 on:** May 24, 2002, 09:17:09 AM »

Seems I read that it takes over 15lbs of force for full defelection of the stick. Can't remember where I read it.

I can tell you this for sure though, I can hold my stick by the handle off the desk at any angle and bounce it as fast as I can move it and it doesn't budge from center. I don't know how much the stick weighs but together they weigh 18lbs. The stick is heavier so probably weighs 10 lbs.

As I mentioned before, I've gotten used to stiffness in that it no longer seems "hard" to move but the center is too noticeable. Try this, pull up the calibration window in AH, try to draw a small circle with the stick. I can't do it with the Cougar but can easily with the FLCS.

Vermillion · « **Reply #26 on:** May 24, 2002, 09:36:59 AM »

LOL!

While I may be a geek, I don't quite think I'm small and spindley.

Now I'm not in the NateDog class of size and mass, but I'm 6'2" and about 210 lbs, and tend to be fairly average in level of fitness.

And let me tell yah.... The movement on the Thrustmaster sticks (my experience was prior to the Cougar, but it sounds to be similar) is a hell of alot stiffier and harder to move than in the real AT6 Texan that I flew an aerobatics flight in.

Admittedly its personal taste. But I get much smoother control out of my CH stick, than I did with my Thrustmaster.

AKIron · « **Reply #27 on:** May 24, 2002, 09:48:06 AM »

While I'm whining about the stick let me moan about the throttle a bit. They put a lot of work into these things yet simple things like switch alignment (speed brake) and the heavy brake away force for the throttle leave me wondering about their design team.

With the TQS I found it very easy to make the small throttle adjustments sometimes necessary to fly close formation. The Cougar throttle just isn't smooth. I don't know if it's the metal detent bracket, the plastic friction lock, or the plastic bushings causing this. I moved the detents so that I now longer have the irritating clicks but still have excessive break away force. Even with the friction lock so loose that the throttle falls forward under it's own weight the throttle still jerks when making tiny adjustments.

I may be too picky here, but I expected this stick to be an improvement over my 7 year old FLCS/TQS and in a few ways it is not.

AKIron · « **Reply #28 on:** June 02, 2002, 06:43:09 PM »

Have to admit, I've gotten used to the stiff springs on the Cougar. Not sure I'd even want weaker springs now.

214thCavalier · « **Reply #29 on:** June 02, 2002, 07:52:11 PM »

I am at the hating my Cougar stage, it has destroyed my game.
There is no need at all for the springs to be so stiff it gets you killed. Fine control is impossible especially at or passing through centre positions the damn stick tries to lock into position I guess that must be very realistic then.
I believe i saw on Cougar world an F16 pilot posted that this stick would never be accepted into a plane because its so stiff it would get you killed.
F22 Pro springs on order if that does not help dunno what i will do, either remove springs completely or pack up and ship out.

Btw if your using Revvins config try below instead for views as these work much better, with Revvins if you want to modify a view you are already holding, it breaks that view to forward and you have to rekey it.

DEF X1 (H1U AND NOT S3)
DEF X2 (S4 AND (NOT S3) AND (H1U OR H1UR OR H1R OR H1DR OR H1D OR H1DL OR H1L OR H1UL))
DEF X3 (S3 AND (H1U OR H1UR OR H1R OR H1DR OR H1D OR H1DL OR H1L OR H1UL)) OR (H1U AND (NOT (H1UL OR H1UR)) AND NOT S4)
DEF X4 (H1U OR H1UR OR H1R OR H1DR OR H1D OR H1DL OR H1L OR H1UL)
BTN X4 F9
BTN X1 /H KP8 REM Fwd
BTN H1UR /H KP9 REM Fwd_Rgt
BTN H1R /H KP6 REM Rgt
BTN H1DR /H KP3 REM Bwd_Rgt
BTN H1D /P KD(KP2) /R KU(KP2)
BTN H1DL /H KP1 REM Bwd_Lft
BTN H1L /H KP4 REM Lft
BTN H1UL /H KP7 REM Fwd_Lft
BTN X2 /H KP0 REM Down
BTN X3 /H KP5 REM Up
MIX 5 3 (0 25 75 100) (/H X7) ^ (/H X8)
MIY 5 3 (0 25 75 100) (/H X5) ^ (/H X6)
BTN T1 F8
DEF X9 (X5 AND T1)
DEF X10 (X6 AND T1)
DEF X11 (X7 AND T1)
DEF X12 (X8 AND T1)
BTN X9 /H KP8
BTN X10 /H KP2
BTN X11 /H KP4
BTN X12 /H KP6

Get rid of your old views and use this it uses hat 1 and also uses snap views, S3 gives you shifted up 45 deg views and S4 shifted down 45 deg views and the mini joystick can be used for pan view but only when you hold the T1 mini joystick button down.
And of course it does not reset any of the views ie you can hold right view and cycle through up and down views without losing your right view at anytime.