Author Topic: Gunnery should be improved  (Read 345 times)

Offline Soviet

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Gunnery should be improved
« on: May 23, 2002, 11:19:18 AM »
AH is the perfect Multiplayer sim but there's one thing that constantly bugs me.  The gunnery.

It's obvious that the planes in AH have a hit bubble.  Today i've done some tests and a Spit XIV was able to take out a drone P51 from d900.  Don't even argue that this is realistic.  The wing fluttered off at this distance it's rare that enough hits should be able to strike any vital part of the plane and bring it down.

One thing that needs to be worked on is the way elevators just flutter off after a few hits.  They should be damaged making it very hard to control but not flutter off.

It's kind of a handicap for E fighters due to the fact any .50cal or Hispano (or even other guns in the game) armed fighter can spray you from d600 and bring you down.

Look at Il-2.  To be effective in that game you need to get up close and personal to land as many hits as you can.

Feel free to argue, just stating that some improvements to gunnery should be made.

Offline AKSWulfe

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2002, 11:20:56 AM »
Who said Il-2 has a better representation? Just because it's harder?

And it's clear to me you don't know what you are talking about- hit bubbles haven't been in existence since AW.

Hit boxes, OTOH, AH probably uses. But then again, so does Il-2.
-SW

Offline Citabria

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2002, 11:22:28 AM »
il2 has a hit bubble
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline AKSWulfe

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2002, 11:30:32 AM »
and as far as Il-2 being a subject for comparison- you can sit behind a 190A4 or A5 with a P39 and nail him up to 3 times with a 37mm cannon directly to the tail... and he *MIGHT* lose half the horizontal stab.

So like I said, it might be harder.. but it is by no means the most realistic.
-SW

Offline Citabria

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2002, 11:30:47 AM »
btw i cant hit stuff at d900 if they aren't flying straight and level.

and drones are not as tuff as online aircraft
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline CavemanJ

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2002, 11:37:00 AM »
AH has something... I was in a panzer at a field we had captured, stopped and about to .ef near the rearm pad.  A squadmate landed and hit the rearm pad so I figgered I'd goof abit and shoot up the dirt infront of him and make him jump.

I was sittin at about his 7.30 at 95yds.  Put the upper-right side of sight on the pintle gun next to his spinner (so I wouldna hit him, just the ground in front of him) and opened fire.  I was suprised to hear KS kicking in and see the hit flashes straight out from the wing.  Seemed the wing was twice as long as the visual model has it.  The aircraft was a pony.

Another time we were setting up to take off after rearming.  I had rockets on and decided to ditch'em.  Sittin on the runway, a little behind Fatz and offset to his left (coulda passed him with a small gap between our wingtips) I cooked off the rockets and was promptly sent to the tower for killshooter.  Wasn't a friendly on the other end of the runway and I know the path infront of me was clear.

Offline Vector

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Re: Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2002, 11:40:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Soviet
Today i've done some tests and a Spit XIV was able to take out a drone P51 from d900.  Don't even argue that this is realistic.


Yes, fighters were killed by other fighters at 1000+ yards in WWII. Neel Kearby killed an Oscar at 1500 yards(!!) and few more at 1000 yards.

Offline AKSWulfe

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2002, 11:40:24 AM »
Okay, do this CJ... attack a P51 flying away from you... still see hit flashes out board of the wing?

Not at all.

As for that other instance, I dunno what to tell you.

but hit bubbles certainly do not exist here.
-SW

Offline Kuben

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2002, 11:45:02 AM »
It's interesting that the .50 caliber machine gun when given to a heavy weapons squad attached to a platoon, they can effectively fire that weapon with devistating effects to the target at ranges greater than 300 yards.  Even at 900 yards the gun can punch right through car as long as it doesn't hit the engine block.  A single .50 caliber mind you.

A pilot on the other hand gets six of them strapped to his wings and claims they can't effectively hit or damage anything outside of 300 yards.  :rolleyes:

I tell you what, we'll do a little test.  Park your Volkswagen or Geo Metro out in a field and I'll fire a .50 cal at it, no wait, I'll fire six of them at it.  We'll see how much damage it does.

I know that example is a little drastic but trying to give people who have never fired such a powerful weapon before an idea of it's awsome power needs that kind of example.  I would not want a single .50 cal fired at me if I was even a mile away.

I think where people get confused is that the training pilots received told them not to waste ammo taking a shot that is very very hard to hit but rather to get in close before firing.  The training and tactics employed dictated ranges not the guns themselves, the guns could fire effectively well beyond 300 yards.

Kuben

Offline Vector

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2002, 11:50:57 AM »
I recall that .50 cal "official" effective maximum range was 750 yards? Unofficially it was more.

Edit: I've never shot with .50cal, but I've shot 12.7mm anti-aircraft machine gun


It has a huge punch! It feels like a cannon instead of the machine gun.
From finnish military website:
Effective range for air targets : 1500 meters
Effective range for ground targets : 2000 meters

What those distances are in yards?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2002, 12:01:05 PM by Vector »

Offline Vermillion

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2002, 12:14:45 PM »
Prove it Soviet, if its "obvious" that AH uses hit bubbles, post some screenshots that provide some evidence.  Remember its so obvious, so you should have tons of them.

And I'll let you shoot at me at 600 yards with .50's and I bet you won't knock me down. Wanna bet? I'll even let you do a best 2 out of 3 scenario.

Offline Superfly

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2002, 12:21:11 PM »
AH doesn't have a hit bubble.
John "Superfly" Guytan
Art Director
HiTech Creations, Inc.

"My brain just totally farted" - Hitech, during a company meeting

Offline Scootter

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2002, 12:36:14 PM »
Nuff said

in last post

Offline Tac

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2002, 12:44:54 PM »
AH needs bubblegum ;)

Offline Russian

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Gunnery should be improved
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2002, 12:51:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SUPERFLY
AH doesn't have a hit bubble.


IL2 does not use hit bubble ;)