Author Topic: I think this is what Mr. Franklin was talking about.... (Read 520 times)

Udie · « **on:** May 23, 2002, 11:25:15 AM »

When he talked about trading liberty for security....

http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,52739,00.html

What do you do when it apears that your entire legislative branch is corrupt? What do you do when a large portion of them view the constitution as an obsticle? What do you do when you have 600 tyrants in control of your government?

Wasn't it Thomas Jefferson who said "the tree of liberty must be fed with the blood of patriots and tyrants from time to time"? Is it getting time for a revolution here? Since 9/11 all they seem to have done is throw money at problems and chip away at our liberties.

Anybody else getting tired of this? I am and I don't see it getting any better......

K West · « **Reply #1 on:** May 23, 2002, 11:31:23 AM »

I normaly don't get involved in these discussions but I concur 100%. I felt this way a few weeks after 9/11 when they started with adding new Depts to the government as well as increasing the power able to be wielded by politicians, law makers, the military and enforcement/intellegence agencies.

Has my life changed? Not all. But one small data processing error on some Gov't employees part (ss# typo, name or address error) and that could change drastically.

Westy

KG45 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 23, 2002, 11:51:37 AM »

USA PATRIOT Act

'nuff said

Thrawn · « **Reply #3 on:** May 23, 2002, 12:02:37 PM »

Do what we in Canada did to the Progressive Conservative Party. Vote them out. By the end of that election they were left with only 2 seats in the House of Commons.

Of course now we've been left with a Liberal Party dynasty that doesn't seem to want to end.

milnko · « **Reply #4 on:** May 23, 2002, 12:04:37 PM »

We need to go back to the lowest common denominator, giving as much control to local and state goverments as possible. Too many of us feel we have zero influence on the federal goverment.

The absolute worst thing most of us do, is to tell our children that ALL politicians are crooked, this makes it acceptable, and our children grow up expecting nothing more.

And so as the Gun Control lobbyists ask for more legislation, we can gain a glimpse as to why the founding fathers were so adament about perserving our Right to Bear Arms.

It was thier way of insuring that the PEOPLE had the ability to change the goverment by force if necessary when petitions and discussion had failed.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #5 on:** May 23, 2002, 12:27:34 PM »

you're right on target there Udie

Montezuma · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2002, 02:11:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by milnko
And so as the Gun Control lobbyists ask for more legislation, we can gain a glimpse as to why the founding fathers were so adament about perserving our Right to Bear Arms.

It was thier way of insuring that the PEOPLE had the ability to change the goverment by force if necessary when petitions and discussion had failed.

You wouldn't last 5 minutes against the local PD, not to mention the US army.

There's good reasons for owning guns, fighting the government isn't one of them.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2002, 02:14:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Montezuma

You wouldn't last 5 minutes against the local PD, not to mention the US army.

There's good reasons for owning guns, fighting the government isn't one of them.

Ever heard of militias? They stockpile weapons for something... and it ain't duck hunting.

Check out the midwest, I'm sure that given the reason to unite they wouldn't give it a second thought regarding an uprise.
-SW

Kanth · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2002, 02:47:16 PM »

Make them all live like the osbournes on a reality tv show.

Kanthy

Sandman · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2002, 03:07:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by milnko

And so as the Gun Control lobbyists ask for more legislation, we can gain a glimpse as to why the founding fathers were so adament about perserving our Right to Bear Arms.

It was thier way of insuring that the PEOPLE had the ability to change the goverment by force if necessary when petitions and discussion had failed.

roadkill... your pistols and semi-automatic weapons aren't going to change the government. This argument is so tired.

Militias... LOL

I imagine that the Taliban/Al-Queda were probably better equipped than any militia (i use the term loosely) in this country. Look how well they're doing.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #10 on:** May 23, 2002, 03:09:49 PM »

there are many reasons for the right to bear arms, and war against the gov't is the main one. actually the right of the people to bear arms is one of the few things that keep those in power from completely disregarding the rights of the average guy, there are few things scarier than an armed man with nothing to lose.

i also believe our gov't has become structured upside-downfor a democracy, any organisation that is structured from top down is not going to represent the average member.

the federal gov't should only get involved in afairs that your state can't handle (nat'l deffence, inter-state disputes, ect), the state should only get involved in issues the county can't solve, and the county only involved where the city can't hadle it. that way you have a much better chance of knowing the people who have the most power over your life. so you know the people who hadle most of your everyday issues personaly or at least by reputation, as it is with the federal gov't controling everything exept what they choose not to bother with you don't really know anything about these politicians, just what their pr guys say about them.

john9001 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2002, 03:33:47 PM »

most of the US army is over-seas defending "US intrests"

midnight Target · « **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2002, 03:35:32 PM »

What about the FBI? Interstate commerce? Transportation? The list goes on and on. A strong central government has become a necessity. I have yet to read any info from a militia that was worth the paper it was written on. Just wackos with "my gun is bigger than yours" complexes.

I wonder how involved some of you actually get. Especially those who are berating the process.

miko2d · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2002, 04:05:59 PM »

Udie,
You do not have enough sympathisers to elect the right pople into office. Why do you think you will have enough to have a revolution?
You do need a majority for that, you know - otherwise even if you won, you would be a dictator! But if you had majority, you would not need to fight, just vote...

Our government may be corrupt but I think it accurately reflects the people it represents.

miko

Udie · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2002, 04:19:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
Udie,
You do not have enough sympathisers to elect the right pople into office. Why do you think you will have enough to have a revolution?
You do need a majority for that, you know - otherwise even if you won, you would be a dictator! But if you had majority, you would not need to fight, just vote...

Our government may be corrupt but I think it accurately reflects the people it represents.

miko

I don't think a revolution is possible, not an armed one anyway. I do believe that the system was not designed to be run they way it is today and I think it will fail because of that. Try and stand a pyramid on it's point and it will fall over every time. Power is supposed to flow up from the individual to the federal government through local, county and state politics before federal. It's almost 100% the otherway around now. I call it highway blackmail or highway robbery. They force laws on the states by the threat of not giving highway dollars. That's freakin extortion the way I look at it and that's the way the Feds work on everything.

We need some sort of revolution but I am not holding my breath. I don't have much faith in the wisdom of the average American. And I have less faith in mankind as a whole. IT just really pisses me off to see our elected officials piss off rights and liberties that so many have died or lived mangled lives for....