Flight model quirks/flaws

[Rollio]

Anyone know if they plan to change the flight model.  Overall it's pretty well done however there are a few glaring flaws I've noticed, most having to do with low speed handling and spins/stalls.

First of all in a real plane if you yank back on the stick hard enough to cause a spin, it will spin immediately, not pitch back for 2 seconds then go into 'spin mode'.  Also there is too much warning at times (espescially on certain planes).

Second... Weathervaning?  Do the tailfeathers/fuse have no effect at low speed or what?  Why can't I do a proper whipstall or hammerhead?  This is a huge problem as it takes away many possible useful combat maneuvers.

Third, stability.  Why is it that so many planes go completely out of control when the rudder/vertical stab is shot off?  The fuselage acts like one big vertical stab on real planes preventing this sort of behavior unless some really powerful differential thrust or torque effects are at work.  At the minimum, if you cut your engine(s) after losing your rudder/vertical stab, you should have a controllable plane.

Fourth, leveling.  Most (if not all to my knowledge) WW2 aircraft had at least a few degrees of dihedral, this has an automatic leveling effect when the plane is in or nearly properly trimmed, I have not seen this effect once in AH.

[Rude]

What the world...needs now....is love.....sweet love....yada yada.

Personally, these self-rightous, all knowing critiques, just plain piss me off.

Sorry

[SKurj]

do u trim your own plane in AH or let combat trim do it for you...

repeat as required..


SKurj

[SirLoin]

First point...I have never flown a real plane so I have no idea if it is realistic or not but I know what you are saying.You are more likely to get a stick stirring message than a departure in flight control if you yank on the stick.I know of other sims that have that high speed stall and more severe spins but again,is that realistic?I don't know,maybe HiTech is right on the money with his FM's.

Second point...I do whipstalls all the time..Never tried a Hammerhead though I can't see why that shouldn't work either.It's more of a WW1 manouver anyways.

Third point....These are WW2 fighters,not PT 19 trainers.They have instabillity built into them that is managed with trim.If you think a FW is missing dihedral effects...I mean..that's the most rediculous thing I've heard in some time.


I hope this wasn't a troll cause I just bit...

[Shane]

just sayin'

[DmdBT]

Hmmm 242 Suicide Kings...

Isnt that the bunch that got booted from the other sim for hacking? Maybe these so-called innocent querries into the flight modelling have deeper implications.

Lonz

[funkedup]

Obviously this guy has a lot of hours in real warbirds or he wouldn't post with such certainty.  Rollio can you share your logbook with us, I bet it's real impressive.  Or are you attempting to use other sims as a historical reference?

[Virage]

Put the rope down guys.  Nice group here.

Is there no room for improvement in this area?

IMO...

The stall model closely resembles my experiences in low speed power-on and power-off stalls in the Cessna and Aeronca.  Stall develops over time with increased mushiness , nose drop and roll until 1 wing departs fully.  Roll can be controlled with rudder and decreasing angle of attack breaks the stall.

I do have questions about the Spin modeling.  During a stall, you feel  a spin developing and know when to break the stall to avoid it.  I don't experience this AH.  I have occasionally seen other players stall into the ground (and done it myself) , but not much spinning going on.

[MuadDib of Dune]

Third, stability. Why is it that so many planes go completely out of control when the rudder/vertical stab is shot off?
=====
Which planes?  Ive flown most of em at one time or another and lost rudder on nearly everything in here and Ive never gone totally out of control after losing the rudder.  Lose yaw, of course...just RTB and get a new one.

When the entire vert stab goes, yes.  Your a goner.  Just ask Airbus.

[Rollio]

jeez what kind of hornets nest is this community?  I post legitimate questions and I get flamed over and over?

I won't claim any RL warbird flight experience (neither can just about any of you), HOWEVER that doesn't mean I don't know what they are capable of.  I've seen several videos and gone to airshows and such to see them maneuvering.  And I've personally flown several models with similar designs.  

My points are all valid, at least deserving of some legitimate explanation.  The spin point might be at least partially debatable, but with the other three I am certain there is something fishy going on.  From a gameplay standpoint the only one that really matters to me is the weathervaning problem, as that has some very strange effects in combat.  For example I've pulled vertical, then fell straight down 1000 feet tail first to smack the ground (without any significant rotations in the yaw or roll axis's).   Warbirds were tailheavy, but not THAT tailheavy.

[Toad]

Originally posted by SirLoin
Third point....These are WW2 fighters,not PT 19 trainers.They have instabillity built into them that is managed with trim.

Not to be picky here but...

The PT-19 is extremely, exceptionally stable and incredibly forgiving. That is definitely a true statement. It is, without doubt, the best aircraft to train a student in that I have ever flown.

However, not ALL WW2 fighters have "instability built into them". In fact, I doubt any were deliberately made inherently unstable. Rather, aerodynamic tradeoffs were made for performance requirements that resulted in some instability in some aircraft.

Moreover, I know you've read reports, accounts and stories of aircraft that were "excellent gun platforms" and so on. This is a comment primarily on stability. So, quite a few were obviously pretty stable and the pilots noted that.

Lastly, instability is NOT compensated for by pilot trim. I know I've said it before but TRIM is not a primary flight control. If instability is to be compensated for, one uses the PRIMARY flight controls.

By it's very nature, instability implies a continually changing somewhat random situation. Trim is used for exactly the OPPOSITE situation, ie: need for a prolonged control displacement in one direction to maintain a STABLE situation. For example, one would trim nose up in a prolonged climb to relieve pilot work load on holding the stick back. Or one would trim nose up on approach to compensate for a necessary pitch change caused by lowering the gear.

[Qnm]

Cue Rollio:

I won't claim any RL warbird flight experience

Maybe someone on the HTC dev team could , you think?

[SKurj]

my comment about combat trim was not clear sorry... turn off combat trim and then try a hammerhead.  SOME aircraft can do em sweet +)


SKurj

[NUTTZ]

No Offense intended,,BUT If HTC was to create a sym that trully recreates WW2 flight characteristics to a T( which i believe he can), then most, and i do mean most of us wouldn't be able to play this "Game" I for one, like a close FM that is tuff with a learning curve but wouldn't play a game that is ALL work and no play, a balance must be struck between REAL FM and a FM that is playable AND enjoyable to a majority of "players". IMO HTC HAS hit that fine line! You want a real true to life ww2 FM go buy a real plane and fly it. Gamey, arcadish? call it what you want  this IS a game, and trully a fun ww2 fighting sym, best on the market if ya asked me.

NUTTZ

Originally posted by Rollio
jeez what kind of hornets nest is this community?  I post legitimate questions and I get flamed over and over?

I won't claim any RL warbird flight experience (neither can just about any of you), HOWEVER that doesn't mean I don't know what they are capable of.  I've seen several videos and gone to airshows and such to see them maneuvering.  And I've personally flown several models with similar designs.  

My points are all valid, at least deserving of some legitimate explanation.  The spin point might be at least partially debatable, but with the other three I am certain there is something fishy going on.  From a gameplay standpoint the only one that really matters to me is the weathervaning problem, as that has some very strange effects in combat.  For example I've pulled vertical, then fell straight down 1000 feet tail first to smack the ground (without any significant rotations in the yaw or roll axis's).   Warbirds were tailheavy, but not THAT tailheavy.

[San]

I saw this last night laughed so hard i almost puked.