Best modern fighters

[Durr]

I wouldnt go so far as to say that the Mig-31 is useless without GCA, it has an excellent onboard pulse doppler radar with true lookdown-shootdown capability, unlike its predecessor the Mig-25.  Your remarks apply better to the the Mig-25 which was indeed designed to counter the Valkyrie.  The Foxhound, however, is a substantial upgrade to the Mig-25, although it still leaves much to be desired.  You are correct that it is better in straightline speed than in turning though.  The manouverability of the Mig-31 is not good.  Speed of the Mig-31 is NOT mach3+ though.  Some of the recon versions of the Mig-25 could touch Mach 3 for a very short period, but the fighter versions of the Foxbat and the Foxhound, although still exceptionally fast at around Mach 2.5 cannot reach Mach 3.  

Also, the F-14 is not more manouverable than the F-15.  The Tomcat is the least manouverable of the teen fighters.  In fact the current Tomcats are limited to 7.5 Gs.  The F-15E is limited to 9G.  The Eagle has the faster roll rate and the smaller turn circle.  Acceleration of the Eagle is also better due to its better power to weight ratio.  The only area of performance where the Tomcat is near equal is in low altitude top speed.  The variable geometry wings help it in this flight regime.  The Eagles greater power makes up for this to a large degree though.

 The 14 and 15 have roughly equivalent capabilities in terms of radar and targeting.  The Tomcat does have an advanced optical system for identifying air-to-air targets that the Eagle lacks, but the Eagle radar is better overall.  The F-15E has terrain following radar that enables it to fly hands-off at extreme low level in any weather.

 The F-14 has the advantage in terms of longest ranged weapon of course with the Phoenix, but the Phoenix is primarily a fleet defense weapon.  The Phoenix isnt agile enough to deal with fighters well, not to mention that it costs too much to be used against fighters that pose no threat to the fleet.  The AMRAAM and Sidewinder missiles are used by both aircraft so no relative advantages there.  Both aircraft use a 20mm multi barrel cannon as well.    The F-14 has recently become quite an accomplished ground attack aircraft, although it isnt in the same league as the Strike Eagle in this role.  

I do agree however that the F-14 is a much better interceptor than the F-18 and that the fleet will be giving up some capability once the Tomcats are retired.  The bottom line as to why they are going away is simply the cost.  They are old, parts are scarce, and things are breaking on them much more than they used to. The wear and tear on the F-14s has been more than would have been the case for a land-based fighter due to the additional stress of operating from a carrier.

 Having an all F-18 air wing will yield cost benefits in many areas.  The downside is that the Hornets cant perform the anti-sea and tanker missions as well as the S3, the EW mission as well as the EA-6, the interceptor mission as well as the F-14,  or the attack mission as well as the A-6.  The fact that it can be configured to perform all those missions is simply amazing, and the Hornet is an awesome fighter plane, one of my favorites to be sure.  However, the jack of all trades, master of none comment definitely applies here.  The Hornets main weakness is its lack of range, which is a cardinal sin for a carrier based aircraft.

[Hangtime]

Henh. The tomcat is dated to be sure.. but to compare the original F14A to the current Eagles ain't exactly fair..

F14D

Maximum range: 1600 nm (2573km)
Combat radius: 578 miles (930 km)
Ceiling: 68,900 ft (21,000m)  
Max. speed: 1,584 mph (2,548km/h) at 40,000 ft (12,200 m)
Internal fuel: 16, 200 lbs.  
External fuel: 3, 800 lbs.  
Function: Carrier-based multi-role strike fighter
Contractor: Grumman Aerospace Corporation
Unit Cost: $38 million
Propulsion:
F-14A: Two Pratt & Whitney TF-30P-414A turbofan engine with afterburners
F-14B and F-14D: Two General Electric F110-GE-400 turbofan engines with afterburners
Thrust:
TF-30P-414A: 20,900 pounds (9,405 kg) static thrust per engine
F110-GE-400: 27,000 pounds (12,150 kg) static thrust per engine
Length: 61 feet 9 inches (18.6 meters)
Height: 16 feet (4.8 meters)
Weights: Empty: 41, 780 lbs
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 72,900 pounds (32,805 kg)
Wingspan: 64 feet (19 meters) unswept, 38 feet (11.4 meters) swept
Ceiling: Above 50,000 feet
Speed: Mach 2+
Crew: Two: pilot and radar intercept officer
Armament: Up to 13,000 pounds to include AIM-54 Phoenix missile, AIM-7 Sparrow missile, AIM-9 Sidewinder missile, air-to-ground precision strike ordnance, and one M61A1/A2 Vulcan 20mm cannon.
Date Deployed: First flight: December 1970

F15E Eagle:

Primary function: Tactical fighter
Contractor: McDonnell Douglas Corp.
Power plant: Two Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220 or 229 turbofan engines with afterburners
Thrust: (C/D models) 23,450 pounds each engine
Wing span: 42.8 feet (13 meters)
Length: 63.8 feet (19.44 meters)
Height: 18.5 feet (5.6 meters)
Speed: 1,875 mph (Mach 2.5 plus)
Maximum takeoff weight: (C/D models) 68,000 pounds (30,844 kilograms)
Ceiling: 65,000 feet (19,812 meters)
Range: 3,450 miles (3,000 nautical miles) ferry range with conformal fuel tanks and three external fuel tanks
Crew: F-15A/C: one. F-15B/D/E: two
Armament: One internally mounted M-61A1 20mm 20-mm, six-barrel cannon with 940 rounds of ammunition; four AIM-9L/M Sidewinder and four AIM-7F/M Sparrow air-to-air missiles, or eight AIM-120 AMRAAMs, carried externally.
Unit Cost: A/B models - $27.9 million (fiscal 98 constant dollars);C/D models - $29.9 million (fiscal 98 constant dollars)
Date deployed: July 1972
Inventory: Active force, 396; Reserve, 0; ANG,126.

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On basic stats the two birds are very comparable.. the kitty, while a little bit heavier still has a better thrust to weight ratio and a very comparable radar suite... if both carried the same armament in a head to head engagement I'd still rather fly the Tomcat. Stripped down for a knife fight the kitty will kick the birds ass.

in any case.. even dated and tired, it still rates better than number 7 on yer list.

[funkedup]

Hang you've been watching Top Gun over and over again too much.  You're taking the Tom Cruise fetish too far this time.

Those figures are a bit misleading.  F-15C weighs 16,000 lb less than F-14D with no stores and max internal fuel.  With similar loads the kitty cannot touch the Eagle in T/W.

Climb rate, acceleration, maneuverability, top speed, avionics, pilot visibility.  All in the favor of the Eagle.  Kitty litter had better pray for a Fox 3 kill.

It's a nice JDAM hauler though.  And obviously it has a passenger carrying advantage over the F-15C.  

[Cerceuilvolant]

Durr wrote:

The Rafale will mostly replace this fighter in French service once it becomes operational

[streakeagle]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Henh. The tomcat is dated to be sure.. but to compare the original F14A to the current Eagles ain't exactly fair..
F15E Eagle:
Power plant: Two Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220 or 229 turbofan engines with afterburners
Thrust: (C/D models) 23,450 pounds each engine

It is also unfair to use the F-15E when talking air to air since it weighs more. Without CFT's or drop tanks, F-15C weighs about 44,635 at takeoff with full internal fuel. F-14 in a similar condition is well over 50,000 lbs and has less internal fuel. Also, look up  the thrust for the -229 engine, its just a bit more than the old -220 (around 28 to 29000 lbs each) Eagles were held back from being re-engined because even with the old -220, they still had decent T/W, whereas the F-14 and F-16 received priority since they were getting too heavy with "improvements". I have never heard of any American aircraft in service that had more T/W and could outclimb the Eagle.

[AKSWulfe]

Originally posted by funkedup
Gripens are cool.  Great value for the money.  When I build my own air force we will use those.

Hehe.. can I be a l33t f1g|-|t3r p10l3t in your air force when you build it?

With me leading a squadron we can take over any country we want!

How's Bolivia sound? http://www.scramble.nl/bo.htm

-SW

[funkedup]

We'll annex Puerto Rico first.  Then Bolivia.  Zen zee verld!

[caereth]

Gripen taking off from a road:


Gripen landing on a road:


Gripen cockpit:


Gripen at a road base in the forest:


Gripen with Maverick, DWS39 and Sidewinder:


Gripen formation over Visby, Sweden:


Gripen in-flight refueling:


Sorry for posting so many images, I hope nobody minds :-)

[Hortlund]

DANG we've got a great looking fighter in our airforce *proud*

[gofaster]

You guys should read the new issue of "Flight Journal" to see the evaluation of the F-16 vs F-18 from the pilot's perspective and AtoA combat.

[AKIron]

All other factors equal (which of course they are not) there are other very important considerations regarding military aricraft. Ruggedness and maintainability are not the least of which. All US military aircraft are designed and built with this in mind. What good is a hot new fighter or bomber if ya can't generate the sorties ya need?

[Furious]

Originally posted by streakeagle
It is also unfair to use the F-15E when talking air to air since it weighs more. Without CFT's or drop tanks, F-15C weighs about 44,635 at takeoff with full internal fuel. F-14 in a similar condition is well over 50,000 lbs and has less internal fuel. Also, look up  the thrust for the -229 engine, its just a bit more than the old -220 (around 28 to 29000 lbs each) Eagles were held back from being re-engined because even with the old -220, they still had decent T/W, whereas the F-14 and F-16 received priority since they were getting too heavy with "improvements". I have never heard of any American aircraft in service that had more T/W and could outclimb the Eagle.

But none of that matters as F-15's don't land on carriers.

[GtoRA2]

Where is this f-15 thread?

[udet]

there's an La9 replica that just had its first engine run. Do you get where I'm aiming with this?

[Frogm4n]

they just need to figure out a way to keep those f14s from augering all the time. every 6 months you hear about one crashing.