Author Topic: Were the Russians planning to invade in 1942? (Read 1935 times)

Angus · « **on:** May 30, 2002, 12:16:01 PM »

So, Borodas inflammable thread is closed, muhahahaha.
Well, it had a wee bit too many topics in it.
So here is one thing I mentioned there, only to be blamed of being a Nazi symphatiser:mad:
Last year I saw a documentary on a planned russian invation of Germany, supposed to be executed in the spring of 1942. The main source were former TOP SECRET papers retrieved from recently opened russian archives, but there were also interviews with people that had studied this quite well, and local people in Poland that lived at the places where the Red army started stockpiling their equipment.
I do not belive Boroda and such, when it is simply statet this is roadkill, propoganda and fake. Well, there are also people that state that the earth is flat, and other theories are roadkill!
So, I was wondering if some of you historians out there have any more knowledge of this. There will be flames, of course, but hopefully also some information.
I am simply curious about this.

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 30, 2002, 12:24:50 PM »

Some russians are still brain washed.

Even the dutch where guilty on warcrimes killing villages in indonesia after the war.

No country is innocent and russia sure wasn't

Saw documentary about russian mass graves one eroded and lotsa corpses where found in the river.

A lot off things where cept secret and sometimes discovered on this horrible way.

Denying would be very foolish

Dowding · « **Reply #2 on:** May 30, 2002, 12:37:59 PM »

It's mentioned in several books on Stalin - there are apparently sources supporting the theory.

Check out Edvard Radzinsky's 'Stalin' - it has a fairly detailed description of the plan and the evidence supporting its existance.

Tee book also has information on Stalin's ideas about open war with the US (curtailed by his timely death).

Boroda · « **Reply #3 on:** May 30, 2002, 01:09:06 PM »

Well, the possible date when USSR could have finished rearming could be mid-1942.

But you'll never find any documents proving that what you call "agression" (and I could probably call "liberation") was planned. I will not say that it wasn't planned - i don't know. It could be. But any documents are either destroyed or simply don't exist (in case it wasn't).

Yes, some Russians are brainwashed. In fact - you can't find a nation that reached industrial level where at least some people are not

I have already said it many times that I don't think Russia is innocent. War is war...

Sorry for my flames and thanks to Pyro.

vorticon · « **Reply #4 on:** May 30, 2002, 01:21:35 PM »

russians invade...thats about as beleivable as this

in 1944 canada was thinking about joining the axis side
they had a secret weapon that would make them invinsible to americans...they planned to incade using SNOWBALSS...LOL

Boroda · « **Reply #5 on:** May 30, 2002, 01:26:58 PM »

Dowding, Radzinskiy is an old-style Soviet "social-realistic" playwrite. His plays were suggested for provincial theatres and all 100% followed the Party line, approved by Party authorities. His "historical" books are a mixture of fiction and popular history. Here he is popular mostly for his TV programms where he describes some historical personalities or events "for dummies". He has a talent to make things interesting, but nothing more... Too many fantasies. But he's a good example of how a literary talent can switch from one field to another and earn money and popularity. Another weird figure of our crazy time.

Stalin is a tragic and monumental figure in Russian history. I never saw any book about him that was written without any emotions. Usually there are two extremes: "bloody butcher" and "the father of the nation". I try to read the books from both trends and try to form my own understanding. The only thing that I am sure is that he "inherited a country with a plowshare, and left it with an H-bomb". Sir Winston was an extremely wise man.

julle · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2002, 01:55:06 AM »

Boroda, by "liberation" you mean people been liberated from their life?

Angus, those plans are out there. I wish that they could be found. It would be interesting history-wise.

julle

--am-- · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2002, 06:18:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding

Check out Edvard Radzinsky's 'Stalin' - it has a fairly detailed description of the plan and the evidence supporting its existance.

Edvard Radzinsky's checked. In one archive there is no record, that the person on a name "Edvard Radzinsky's" to take though one document for last five years. He not the historian.

--am-- · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2002, 06:27:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by julle
Angus, those plans are out there. I wish that they could be found. It would be interesting history-wise.

julle

The Russian archives are open (even a sexual - problem the fantastic writer Beevor there worked). And the plans for a case of war with Germany too are published. But in west they nobody to interest, because in these plans there is no aggression. It does not enter into a stereotype of average western inhabitant, at which the brains are washed out, which consider Russian can only attack.

julle · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2002, 07:09:01 AM »

1939?! EH?!

Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuenia, POLAND...EH?!EH!?EH?!

NO AGRESSION?! NO ATTACKING?!

Next U will say that the Russain paramilitary partisans attacked MILITARY targets near the Finnish boarder?! And they DID NOT attack small villages killing women and children, even infants?! ROLFMAO!!

julle

--am-- · « **Reply #10 on:** May 31, 2002, 07:24:08 AM »

Though be cried, but that that you to write there is an ordinary propagation. A history it not the collection Comics. All is much more complex. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuenia voluntary have come in structure USSR. You can assert, that it is aggression, but this your personal opinion. The opinion of all states, that it it was lawful. If you it is bad to know a history, I can inform, that these states till 1917 in a nature did not exist.

Hortlund · « **Reply #11 on:** May 31, 2002, 08:08:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by --am--
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuenia voluntary have come in structure USSR. You can assert, that it is aggression, but this your personal opinion. .

This is not even fun anymore. Its plain scary... I never thought I'd see Soviet 1940-propaganda advocated in the 21st century like this. Talk about revisionist...

julle · « **Reply #12 on:** May 31, 2002, 08:30:26 AM »

This MUST be a flame bait?!

julle

--am-- · « **Reply #13 on:** May 31, 2002, 08:36:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hortlund

see Soviet 1940-propaganda advocated in the 21st century like this. Talk about revisionist...

Revisionist this denying of the international contracts and documents. It in what you are engaged. I can remind, that personally you have declared, that the German army did not make any crimes. I to result you the proof. You have broken off.

julle · « **Reply #14 on:** May 31, 2002, 09:15:58 AM »

--am-- there was NOTHING voluntary in the occupying of the Baltic and ½ of Poland. They had to choose between terror and extinction. Even today people in those countries think: "What if we had tried to resisit, like Finland?" In fact the Germans were taken as LIBERATORS in 1941-42!

What comes to: "I can inform, that these states till 1917 in a nature did not exist." What is "nature"? I could say the earth belongs to DINOSAURS, not bolsheviks. You can say what you will, but the FACT is that these were INTERNATIONALLY independent countries which were invaded and exploited. That´s AGGRESSION.

http://www.winterwar.com/mainpage.htm

julle