6 View in the F4U

[F4UDOA]

Thought I would post this to show an actual 6 view from a F4U. It compares pretty well with the AH 6 view. This is more meant to compare to those other WW2 flight simms that won't let you see greater than a 45 degree angle out of the canopy.

[ra]

I've never seen a picture of an F4U with the pilot's head so high.  It doesn't look like he could close the canopy.  He must have the seat raised to the highest setting; it could be adjusted through a nine inch range.  Anyway, all AH planes have a generous 6 view, not just the F4U.

ra

[Kratzer]

...or he could be pushing himself up with his legs to get into frame...

[Kratzer]

...notice he isn't strapped in, and the shoulder strap seems to mount fairly low in relation to his shoulder...

[GRUNHERZ]

Dont cheat F4UDOA. That looks like an F4U5 which had a raised pilot position and other changes. Look at his helmet and the groundcrews uniform, that looks from the 1950's and has 100% nothing to do with WW2 Corsairs.

[F4UDOA]

Heya Grunherz,

I'm not cheating. But good eye for the -5. You probably guessed but the flat front windscreen gives it away.

But your wrong about the raised seat. They did put a more reclined seat ala the FW190 in the -4 but they raised the seat in the -1A forward. In the F4U-5 they actually sloped the nose down instead.

Here is a -1D pic. It's the same view.

[Toad]

Kratzer, on the mounting of the shoulder belts, if it's the usual way, is really low. There's an inertia reel on the back of the seat down around low back or butt area. It's steel cable runs up to a "Y" in the webbing. The Webbing continues up, diverging and going over both shoulders.

Look at the shoulder harness in the last photo. I think you'll get the idea.

Just about every fighter pilot I know tells me they flew with the seat as high as they could get it considering the canopy.

Think about it. If you're going out to "kill or be killed" would you run the seat down into a hole where you would see less of the outside or as high up as you could get so you could see more?

[Razzor]

"Think about it. If you're going out to "kill or be killed" would you run the seat down into a hole where you would see less of the outside or as high up as you could get so you could see more?"

That probably depends on whether you think you're going to do the killing or not

[Samm]

Yep thats an f4u5, it has that cool looking wider windscreen . F4UDOA what is the caption for that photo ? I'm thinking it might even be in the sixties .

[F4UDOA]

I'm trying to remember where I found it. I think it is Guy Bordelon, Korean war Ace.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Razzor
"Think about it. If you're going out to "kill or be killed" would you run the seat down into a hole where you would see less of the outside or as high up as you could get so you could see more?"

That probably depends on whether you think you're going to do the killing or not

If you ain't going out to do the killing it's almost certain you won't be doing any.

That attitude just makes you another star on someone's canopy rail.

[RightF00T]

LOL Thx Toad, that will be my new sig.

[Kweassa]

It's more of how open cockpits provide natural advantages than how truly "lenient" the 6-view in F4U(or any other plane) was. I will post a pic proving this. Look caregully in the two cases you've provided F4UDOA when the cockpit is in the "would-be-closed" position(in yellow lines).

 When the cockpit is open, the lofty space provides enough movement room for the pilot with loose straps and reared seat to deflect/lean his torso left and right, which would provide him the "6-view" you say. Effectively, his head movement will pass through the maximum space provided if the cockpit is closed.

 Now, consider how it would be when the cockpit is closed. The pilot moves about 5 inches left or right and his temples will be pushing against the glass. If he attempts to twist his torso, lean oneside and look at 6 O'C, his nose will press against the glass.

 You can also see how the pilot in the second pic is really straining forward, providing the optical illusion "he has a lot of  room". He isn't sitting comfortably back. He must be either reaching forward and operating something, or checking out his gunsight. That sort of "leaned-forward"  position comes out typically only when the pilot is in battle, flying level and aiming at something. If he sits back, his head would be restricted to the cockpit glass just as in the first picture. Even when he is leaning in such a manner during flight, it still would restrict his head and torso by about 10~12 inches room.

 In my conclusion, this sort of setting with the seats reared up and pilot head position high is done with the premise that the cockpit will not be closed during the sortie. In other words, from the beginning the pilot probably requested his seat be that way to the ground crew, because he was gonna fly with the cockpit open.

 Why was he gonna fly with the cockpit open?

 Because, when he didn't his 6-view was gonna be restricted heavily.

 Cased closed.

[Kweassa]

For a better explanation:

 The cockpit glass also has a "leading edge" and a "trailing edge". Now, if we simplify the very first pic F4UDOA posted, we get something like the 'cockpit open' pic I drew(please excuse te crudity, not much of an artist here).

 We can see when the cockpit is opened, the leading edge part of the glass is pushed all the way back, parallel with the position of the seat's headrest. There is no hinderance to the room, and the pilot is free to move his head beyond the boundaries.

 Now, as Ra said, the cockpit looks almost impossible to close, yet it is possible. What allows this is that the cockpit glass has a curved 'dome'. However, look at the picture I have posted in my previous post. Look at the position of the glass when the cockpit would be shut. Cockpit glass is narrower near to the trailing edge part, and when the cockpit is closed, the room between the glass and the pilot's head is almost non-existent. Look what would happen if the pilot tries to 'check-6' in the picture below.

 Clearly, the pilot's head position was never meant to be this high when the aircraft is supposed to be flying with "all the doors shut". Obviously the lenient 6-view is only provided with this sort of "tweak". It should be viewed as a sort of "field modification" rather than a 'natural ability'.

[Spritle]

Kweassa,

I think you're missing something about both of those shots.  First shot is a publicity shot so it would have been pointless to close the canopy.  In the second shot, notice that the guy is taking off from a carrier.  Pre-ejection seat days in the Navy, the fastest way to get out of a sinking aircraft was if the canopy was already open.  

I'm sure many pilots cruised around in the South Pacific with their canopies open.  It was pretty hot and humid.  However in combat I'll bet they closed them up pretty quick.  

Also I think you are perhaps missing the point of F4UDOA's post.  He is saying that the 6 view for all the corsair varients in AH is accurate.  

Here is a good link for you F4UDOA.  http://www.vought.com/photos/data/planes5.htm

Notice the last pic!  Oh when do we get JATO assist for corsairs!!!

edit:
I think that picture is actually a -4 and not a -5.  -4's were also equiped with the flat panel windscreen, and the -5, -6 (AU-1) and -7 all had a blown canopy.  The pilot and crew chief look to be in Korean war gear however -4's flew in Korea.  

Here is a shot of a -5

Notice that little hump just aft of where the rear of the canopy seals against the combing.  That does NOT appear on the -4.
I believe the -5 and all subsequent versions had a slightly raised canopy.  This would allow the pilot to raise his seat a little more than say a -4 or earlier.  I also believe the -5 and subs had a slightly more bubble or blown canopy that would have allowed them to move their head a little farther to the side.