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Author Topic: me 109 with gunpods  (Read 748 times)

Offline udet

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me 109 with gunpods
« on: June 03, 2002, 01:30:22 PM »
Does anybody have reference on how the 2 20mm cannons in wing gondolas affect the performane of the 109?
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Offline butch2k

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2002, 01:37:39 PM »
Here is the G-2 with and without gunpods.

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Offline fd ski

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2002, 01:52:42 PM »
let me get this right. 190A4 is SLOWER then G2 WITH gondolas ?
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Offline Kratzer

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2002, 06:07:41 PM »
hmmm...

the HTC charts for the A5 and G2 show very similar speed and climb numbers... the A5 jogs around a bit, but essentially the numbers match up at a lot of points.

Didn't the A4 have the same engine as the A5, and was lighter?  According to HTC, that would make it faster than the G2.
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Offline mw

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2002, 09:39:28 PM »
I have a British report on Tactical Trials of a Me.109G with under-wing gondolas that may be of some interest.

For comparison with a Spitfire IX see:
HERE

For comparison with a Spitfire XIV see:
HERE

Even the Tempest was found to be slightly superior in turn.

Against the Mustang III: "The Mustang has no difficulty at all in out-turning the Me.109 in either direction."
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Offline udet

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2002, 01:12:22 PM »
thank you all.
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Offline butch2k

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2002, 01:23:51 PM »
This A4 tested at the NII-VSS dis not perform very well (probably because of the repairs) and could not achieve a greater manifold pressure than 1.3 without severe overheating.
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Offline Staga

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2002, 03:48:01 PM »
Somewhere was a story about Finnish 109 with gondolas which was in a turn-fight with a russian P-51. Mustang lost the fight when it started to stall. Not sure if 109 was G-2 or G-6.
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Offline Fishu

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2002, 04:05:28 PM »
I think there was just two 109s in FAF which had cannon pods still (cannon pods were removed from others)
I believe those were both G6's.
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Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2002, 07:41:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
Somewhere was a story about Finnish 109 with gondolas which was in a turn-fight with a russian P-51. Mustang lost the fight when it started to stall. Not sure if 109 was G-2 or G-6.


It was Lt Kyosti Karhila, who scored 32 confirmed victories in Curtiss Hawks and 109s.  

During summer -44 he shot two P51s down with his 109 G-6, equipped with the 20mm gondolas. Both were in a horizontal turn'n'burn fight. He describes one of the victores in detail. After several 360 degree circles the P51 tried to tighten the turn, was about to stall, loosened the pull, which enabled "Kossi" to get enough lead to get the shot in. The whole left side of the P51 was torn off. Altitude was about 2km, speeds around 250km/h for Karhila, 300km/h for the P51. This enabled Karhila to stay inside in the turn.

There has been a lot of debate whether these planes were P51s or Yaks.  Karhila is well aware of the differences between the planes. There were altogether six P51 claims made by the Finnish pilots. Many details suggest that the planes indeed were P51s, with the "razorback" style fuselage and cage canopy as in the P51B in AH.

Look for a new interview of Karhila, coming soon to the virtualpilots' website: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/

Camo
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Offline Toad

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2002, 12:24:04 AM »
Hmmmmm...

Can't find any evidence of P-51's as Lend Lease aircraft. Doesn't show as a type that was supplied. Possible they could have still gotten hold of some.

Aircraft types operated by Russian military forces during World War Two.

Lend-Lease to the USSR

Lend-lease Aircraft

Single-Engine Fighters * Shipped * Lost In Transit * Arrived

P-39/P-400 Aircobra *4,719  * Unknown * 3,200 est.

P-40F Kittyhawk * 4,017 * Unknown * 2,975 est.

P-47C Thunderbolt * 195  *0 * 195

P-63 King Cobra * 2,456 * 67 * 2,389

British Hurricane * 2,952 *Unknown * 2,250 est.

British Spitfire *1,331 * Unknown * 1,000 est

So maybe Mustangs and maybe not.

But I'd be looking to see if there's any evidence the Russians had any Mustangs first.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2002, 12:30:14 AM by Toad »
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Offline mw

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2002, 12:55:30 AM »
The Russians received 10 Mustang Is from the RAF in May 42.  They were mostly used for evaluation and didn't see any combat from what I can gather.  That's all the documented deliveries of Mustangs they received as far as I know.  Slim to no chance the Finns saw a Mustang.
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Offline udet

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2002, 09:18:03 AM »
I bet that if the russians had Mustangs and the Finns had Brewsters the Finns would have still get a higher kill/loss ratio :D
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Offline Apar

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2002, 10:08:22 AM »
Thx Butch and MW, great data.

Apar
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Offline AKSWulfe

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me 109 with gunpods
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2002, 10:25:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kratzer
Didn't the A4 have the same engine as the A5, and was lighter?  According to HTC, that would make it faster than the G2.


The A5 was actually heavier than the A4.

A4: 3,989 kg.

A5: 4,000 kg.
-SW
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