Author Topic: You're fighting the spit all wrong  (Read 416 times)

Offline Apache

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« on: December 19, 2001, 10:34:00 AM »
I was never a spit pilot but for the past tour and a half, I have flown the spitIX & V almost exclusively.

What I have noticed is some tactics I have learned NOT to use against the spit.

A Typhoon at 12k at my 10 o'clock at 2800 yards. I am at 8k at approx. 300 TAS. I see the typhoon’s left wing dip slightly so I know he is making a turn for me. He is of course diving because of the difference in altitude; therefore I assume an increase in his speed. He looked to be going fast anyway.

I turn to him but do not climb nor do I pull into him. I’ve also rolled slightly left after the turn to keep my lift vector pointed at him. I’m looking at him with the forward/up view.
He doesn’t turn into me for the HO as I was expecting. When I see this, just as he is about 500 yards out, I roll away to the right then turn to the left, nose down slightly, but I don’t enter full blackout. I don’t like flying blind no matter how short the time. When I come out of the turn, the typhoon is 600 yards away and leaving me in the dust.

I roll inverted, nose down slightly and watch the typhoon as he continues his dive. As he is 1800 yards from me, he begins to climb back up. I roll back upright and level off quickly, trying to beat him to the point I think he will come out at when he reaches my altitude. Nope, spitIX just not fast enough.

His next move was his mistake. He continues his climb and starts bleeding his energy, whereas I stay level. He then goes into a right chandelle. I smile here. All I have to do is cut the corner, nose up and blast him. Worked well. If he was insistent on reversing his course, another maneuver would have worked better, especially with a con climbing up your 6.

Another encounter was just after the typhoon kill. I am rtb at 2k and see another typhoon 2800 yards and closing. I also see a fellow rook at 3500 yards or so behind the typhoon. I am wondering if the countryman knows I’m in front of the typhoon when I get a 6 call from him. Good. I tell him I am reversing. It was my intent to time my turn so that I and the typhoon would come out in front of the fellow rook. I blew it. I started the turn too early and turned too hard, thus the typhoon didn’t follow the complete turn. I am now traveling on my original path again and accelerating, still at 2k or so.

Here comes the typhoon again, lol. I turn to the right once more but by this time my countryman is causing the typhoon all kinds of trouble and the typhoon turns. I have turned approx 180 degrees when I see a KI61 coming right at me. His profile appeared that he had dived so I assumed he had a lot of smash. I go into a hard Immelman. As a matter of fact, when I am going up, I look to the right and see the KI61 pass right off my right wing, still on his original flight path.

I come out behind the KI61 less than 1k away (elevator authority in the spit is awesome). The KI61 didn’t alter his flight path. Apparently he didn’t know where I went. He then turns slightly left (advantage spit) and I close on him. He starts to deepen his turn so I just lag pursuit, not even thinking about a shot. We do at least 2 complete turns (advantage spit). I wait for his e to bleed. We are slow enough now that I begin to go for a guns solution. The KI61 tries to reverse his turn and I see his right wing stall. Got him. I finish him as he is trying to recover.

I’ve had some other interesting encounters but this post has gotten too long. I’m sure if anyone has bothered to read this, they are bored speechless.

Offline Kieran

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2001, 12:24:00 PM »
....

Offline Kieran

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2001, 12:27:00 PM »
;)

Offline funkedup

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2001, 01:21:00 PM »
:)
Cracks me up when guys forget that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.  Cryin' about E-retention and acceleration when they flunked the geometry test.  There needs to be some kind of "Lead Turn Primer" as mandatory reading before taking off in AH.   :)

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Offline Apache

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2001, 01:27:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup:
:)
Cracks me up when guys forget that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.  Cryin' about E-retention and acceleration when they flunked the geometry test.  There needs to be some kind of "Lead Turn Primer" as mandatory reading before taking off in AH.    :)

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

lol, exactly funked. "How the hell did that spit catch me!?!?!?!"

uhm, geometry? Wish I could see the blank stares.  :)

Offline Nifty

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2001, 01:35:00 PM »
It really helps for them to see the Spit in a non MA environment.  I flew some for Raub in the DA, did what he asked me to do, and he just watched instead of manuevering.  Then we did some more merges where he manuevered, yet he paid a lot of attention to what I did.  I hope he came away with a better knowledge of fighting the Spit, even though he could have had much better Spit opponents to fly against.   :)

Spits do retain E well.  At 280 IAS, I can do a flat hard 180 turn and drop to just below 240 IAS, and be back up to 280 IAS very quickly.  However, this will NOT catch up to anything going through level on the merge, even with a very early lead turn, which can be countered by pulling into and under the turn (increases angle off tail).
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline mrniel

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2001, 05:04:00 PM »
Ahh, we all love to tell about the times
where everything was perfect. and tend to
forget the countless other times where we
could not fight our way out of a wet paperbag
I certainly got a selective memory myself.

 :) mrniel

Offline Kieran

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2001, 05:21:00 PM »
Waaalllll... I've flown a bit with Apache, and though my opinion may mean nothing, he seems to do quite well. His name doesn't stay out of the buffer too long at a time, anyway.  ;)

Offline Apache

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2001, 08:13:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mrniel:
Ahh, we all love to tell about the times
where everything was perfect. and tend to
forget the countless other times where we
could not fight our way out of a wet paperbag
I certainly got a selective memory myself.

  :) mrniel

Quite right. However, horn blowing aside, allow me to qualify myself.
From the middle of the last tour to now, I've flown nothing but the SpitV & IX. Totals are inclusive of the aforementioned.

Kills: 230 Deaths: 34

So my tussles with the infamous & ever allusive paperbag are...34  :)

<S> Kieran. I have found that you & I wing up pretty well old friend.

Offline lazs1

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2001, 09:02:00 AM »
apache is a skilless dweeb.   If it weren't for that lazs guy propping him up every sortie and making him look good he would be nothing... Nothing I say!!!
lazs

Offline StSanta

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2001, 11:14:00 AM »
Scheissfeure dweeb.

 :D

Offline maddog

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2001, 11:45:00 AM »
Isn't geometry one of those dome type buildings?

Offline mrniel

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2001, 01:16:00 PM »
Impressive stats Apache,WTG.
However I was more or less thinking about my
own tendency to bore my co-workers to death
about my "brilliant" flying when winning.
and not uttering a word most of the times
when I lost the fight. It was not, as the
last line indicates, a personal attack.
And if it sounded so, I certainly do apologise.

You surely are among the names I remember
a long way back "warbirds ?" and also
respect.

mrniel

Offline Reschke

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2001, 01:23:00 PM »
Check your Private Messages there Apache.
Buckshot
Reschke from March 2001 till tour 146
Founder and CO VF-17 Jolly Rogers September 2002 - December 2006
"I'm baaaaccccckkk!"

Offline Apache

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You're fighting the spit all wrong
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2001, 03:40:00 PM »
You're right lazs, if it weren't for your draggin them lame duc...excellent fighter pilots out of the mass, I would never get a kill.

StSanta, just temporary.  :D

No maddog, thats a volkswagon.

mrniel, no apologies necessary. You brought out a point that I deemed prudent to clarify. I thank you for that.

Got it Reschke. Replied in private messages.

[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: Apache ]