Author Topic: The much underrated P51.  (Read 988 times)

Offline RAM

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The much underrated P51.
« on: August 30, 2000, 09:56:00 PM »
Well,after hearing much rants and claims about A5 uberness, G10 invencibility,etc etc etc, today I had a boring day and decided to give a try to a plane I rarely had flown since early v1.2-the P51.

First sortie was from A27 to A16, where the usual low-intensity furball was going on. 50% fuel and 6 MGs. Got 3 enemies and landed.

Second sortie was very similar. But this time got 4 kills, one of them a bit weird because as I started to fire I got a red beacon for some seconds     . Landed immediatly (so cutting my streak) and reloged.

Third was longer. Went near A1 to kill a low level 109 and then climbed to A13 where there was a massive knit attack on a bish field. I was soon surrounded by unhappy knits     but managed to kill a fw190 shortly before another 109 killed me.

After It I returned with my A5 to fly a coop flight with a newbie friend of mine, then I moved to TA for a long long time.

Came back some 3 hours later, to find rookland gangbanged from all sides. A31, A26 and A16 (now rook) were being bounced at the same time, I chose a P51 and started from A27, moving to A16. I reached A16 at 10K, and dived to clear a 6. There I became involved into a furious low level furball where I killed 4 cons and had 2 assists regardless that we all were at sea level and waves of bishops were coming at 10-15K. I died after a P51 dived on me from 15K when I was at 5K and slow, and HOed me. (this thing is getting REALLY OLD!     ).

Next one I upped from A27 again and moved to A16. There was less action now, only one niki. I dived on her,as did other 3 rooks, and noticed a red spot on my left...A M3!!!. I broke the attack on the niki and looped over the M3, and killed it. Still he managed to kill one of my external MGs.

I climbed up to 10K and returned to A16 where the knights were now attacking (they had conquered A31 shortly before). I saw KKen and another rook on a B17 and the bomber firing at them. I sneaked on the B17 and severed his wing with a 5 second burst. Then I realized that a rook had a P38 on his six , but this time I had very few ammo on my internal MGs and only one external. Still I dived on it and cleared the mate's six, getting some pings on the meantime. assist.

Landed succesfully.

And last one I upped from A27 and climbed S to avoid the incoming knit wave from North. Then I went W for a while until I spotted a knit P51 and bish P47 fighting. I dived under them and did an immelmann. The P51 kept running (strange thing, huh?     ) but the P47D-25 started a fight with me. A wonderful one, BTW, where I nearly was surprised with the E keeping of the 47. Still with help of flaps I won his six and killed it.

I ended low and slow and spotted a bish 109 coming for me. I was nearly hoppeless, but still I managed to drain all his E, and keep into a scissors with him thanks to the flaps of the P51. I barely kept control of my P51, but the 109 (evidently a G10) ended augering, and I got the kill ( he had shot at me before). Then I climbed back to A16 to see Kwan bounced by a knit F4U. we tried to bring it down but he kept on BnZ me (kwan had to disengage), so I couldnt get enough E to fight it. Then I saw a hi bish P51 coming that instead of going forr the hog went for me. I avoided his bounce and then the F4U's one, but,still, he got pings on me killing my rudder and my chances to down him on the overshoot. Still I pinged him well, but the P51 came into me and finished me.

Total K/D on a plaane that I had not touched since 2 months ago (one mission with Heater and HT), and that I dindt fly regularly since Tour 3:

17/3

And most of the time I flew it I flew it low and slow, clearly on the defensive, and in NO moment I tried to run like a little girl because "my P51 cant turn with your uber 190A5".I stayed and Fought, even against the odds. Still I landed all but 3 of the sorties.

Next time I hear that the G10 is the best plane in Aces High, that the A5 is a monster,or that AH is "Cannons High" I'm going to get a good laugh at the poor guy who say it.

(BTW I did a 540IAS dive up to 50 feet to fire at a niki, got impacts on it, but the faulty wings dont seem so weak in my computer    )

<G,D,R>    




[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-31-2000).]

Offline Sharky

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2000, 10:10:00 PM »
Hi Ram,

Well glad you had a good time.  The P-51 Mustang is still the premiere fighter in the sim.  It is normally my only ride, but since the Jug came to AH I fly that alot.  But both here and in WB the Pony is and will always be King.

Sharky

Offline By-Tor

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2000, 10:47:00 PM »
 Man,have to say-having flown vs RAM in his Stang...He's the only guy that gives me a tombstone on a consistent basis. Vs the 51,once you learn to deny a higher faster fighter the shot ,the 'avg.'BnZer can be baited into blowing his E state to below minimum 'extend' requirements.That should mean his termination.Of course,as i STILL cant shoot for toejam,they still sometimes escape.
 The other guy that kills me consistently is EZ in his P-47.These type planes,(driven by this calibre pilot) CAN be flown agressively and 'force the issue' enough to demand the angle fighter to reduce his E-state to termination levels.  
 In the hands of the avg. pilot however,I usually can force at least a disengagement vs. the Stang.

     By-Tor
 

Offline Citabria

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2000, 10:55:00 PM »
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the Fw 190A-5.

RAM has 2 kills and has been killed 1 time in the P-51D against the Bf 109G-10.

RAM has 1 kill and has been killed 2 times in the P-51D against the P-51D.
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Offline RAM

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2000, 11:02:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria:
RAM has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the Fw 190A-5.

RAM has 2 kills and has been killed 1 time in the P-51D against the Bf 109G-10.

RAM has 1 kill and has been killed 2 times in the P-51D against the P-51D.

LOL...it should be a good point, but it isnt. You know why?...because there is no assists listed. I fought at least 4 Fw190a5s in the first part of the night (before going to TA), one was quite stolen (but I remained silent), 2 more were assists, and one last augered with no kill awarded. I am sure they were all A5s, the yellow band on the tail is inconfundible.

The G10 who killed me was Ede, near A13,when I was surrounded by 2 more knits, if he had not killed me, a 190 would've done, so giving you a (invalid) argument in the above statement. Note that I could've 0g dived for safety after killing the 190 I killed, but I remained in the combat against 4 knights, alone, and killed one.

The 2 p51s that killed me are listed in my story avobe. one was a STUPID HO   , other was a intelligent opportunist  . (i think he first got me then he got the F4U).

Now citabria ,your points are...?



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-30-2000).]

Offline Citabria

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2000, 11:04:00 PM »
The P-51D has 421 kills and has been killed 446 times against the Bf 109G-10.

The P-51D has 386 kills and has been killed 471 times against the Fw 190A-5.


 The P-51D has 101 kills and has been killed 72 times against the Fw 190A-8.
 
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Offline RAM

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2000, 11:06:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria:
The P-51D has 421 kills and has been killed 446 times against the Bf 109G-10.

The P-51D has 386 kills and has been killed 471 times against the Fw 190A-5.


 The P-51D has 101 kills and has been killed 72 times against the Fw 190A-8.
 


And?...not my fault that a usual Fw190A5 driver knows to ride a P51D better than a usual P51 driver.

In other words, If handled properly, P51 is deadly. But there is many more people here worried about running in the P51 instead of fighting in it. And THAT is my point.


Offline RAM

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2000, 11:09:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria:

 The P-51D has 101 kills and has been killed 72 times against the Fw 190A-8.
 

That last one is TRULY funny  

Says all about your "argument"    

Offline By-Tor

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2000, 11:16:00 PM »
  That too was my point.Would love to see the 51 flown more agressively, because it is a VERY deadly and capable machine.I think also that it is the preferred ride of a high percentage of relatively inexperienced pilots,due to its historic notoriety and beautifull lines.As such,the kill stats of the P-51 may be among the most inaccurate(as far as being an indicator of the potential effectiveness) of all planes in AH.

     By-Tor

funked

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2000, 11:18:00 PM »
P-51 remains the best air-to-air weapon in the game.  If we could get one with proper 315 Sqn. markings I would fly nothing else.    

BTW I love how people use statistics here.  If the statistics show your plane at a disadvantage it means the plane is undermodeled.  But if they show your plane is at an advantage it just means that better pilots fly your plane.  Gives me a chuckle everytime I see it.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-30-2000).]

Offline Citabria

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2000, 11:19:00 PM »
 
Quote
And?...not my fault that a usual Fw190A5 driver knows to ride a P51D better than a usual P51 driver. -RAM

your whole argument is irrelevant

your individual experience from one day in a P-51 in no way can condone or disdain the flight model of the P-51 based on your Kill to death ratio in it.

its about like saying the P-38L flight model is incorrect because most find it to be a big fat easy target and its not easy to fly succesfully.

it's all just a slanted observation from a certain point of view until you fly that aircraft all the time and see the ins and outs of what makes a P-51 sing and what makes it go down in flames in every possible scenario.
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline RAM

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2000, 11:27:00 PM »
 
Again, seems a sound argument. Again, in fact, it isnt.

Tour 3 scores:


 ram has 94 kills and has been killed 34 times in the P-51D.


As you see I flew P51 extensively in Tour3.I took it first time to check the effects of the (then just fixed) flaps.  I had such a astonishing success in it, I reached a 9/1 score at one point (will never forget it, 27Kills/3 deaths), that I stuck with it for a while. Then I got bored of it and returned to Fw190A8.

 I recall some of those 34 deaths (dont remember how many ,sorry, but at least 5 of them) being in spawns from vulched fields (yes, yes I know it...I also used to spawn in A8s from capped fields    ). In one point I reached 80(+or-) kills vs 12 deaths and next night was something like 85/30. So go figure...
 
After reading the thing of the "tweaking down" of the P51, the "breaking wings" and the "turned down 50 cals" mixed with "cannons high", I thought P51 should be worse than then.

In fact is better.

Yes, citabria noone can base an argument from only one night. But this night I flew the P51 in disadvantageous positions for nearly 80% of the time, other nights I am sure I can fly it from the advantage. So I guess that the results will be, not only not worse, but BETTER than tonight's.

Anyway ,as you see, I have flown P51 a lot. I know the plane. And for me is the best arena plane in Aces High, hands down.



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-30-2000).]

Offline Wardog

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2000, 11:37:00 PM »
Here a little fact for yas.

Wardog has 13 kills and has been killed 4 times in the Fw 190A-5.

Now i have allmost 3 sorties in total in the 190a5, but flew it as i would a p51. The only difference is Cannons. I prefer .50s..

So i find no difference between the 190a5 & p51 except for the weapons and the fact that the p51 is much prettier  

It take no skill to fly the 190a5 or the p51. Both rides are the same.


Dog out..

Offline Citabria

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2000, 11:38:00 PM »
it's just your personal opinion RAM.

and you know how much I value your opinion  



[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 08-30-2000).]
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Offline RAM

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The much underrated P51.
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2000, 11:39:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria:
it's just your personal opinion.

and you know how much I value your opinion  


Heh...just as much as I do value yours.

But who minds? me not