Author Topic: Buffs too delicate? (Read 250 times)

muckmaw · « **on:** June 10, 2002, 03:07:43 PM »

I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but it's seems lately, (This tour to be specific) the buffs are much more delicate than they were before.

Maybe I'm on a streak of bad luck, or maybe HTC tweaked something. I don't know, but has anyone else noticed their buffs feel like they are made of cardboard lately?

Also, is it historically accurate to have something like a 17 come apart after 1 pass from a 190?

Like I said, maybe I've been on a streak of bad luck, but I can't remember the last time I actually survived a bomber sortie.

VWE001 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2002, 03:30:58 PM »

Have not noticed the "paper mache" syndrome as of yet, and as far as that one pass thing goes its all a matter of where you get hit. I usually drop a buff on my first pass, I aim for the outer portion of the wings.

Soviet · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2002, 05:01:57 PM »

b17s are uber enough with it's super guns plus a 190 should down it in 1 pass.

Let's see, it took about 20-30 20mm to down a B17 in ww2

190A8 has 4 Mg151/20 with a ROF of 740 Round a minute each which is 12 round a second per gun times 4 guns so 48 round per second so in 1/2 a second you have 24 rounds which if all hit in the same general area should down the B17

mipoikel · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2002, 05:06:23 PM »

All fighters feels to be paper vs buffs lately. Matbe Im getting worse or buffdrivers better but I dont enjoy attack vs ANY buff anymore. They just dont die.

Tumor · « **Reply #4 on:** June 10, 2002, 05:40:38 PM »

I don't think buffaloes are weak at all. You sure better not ever piss one off... those horns might look small!!

ccvi · « **Reply #5 on:** June 10, 2002, 05:49:00 PM »

and somehow buffs are fast! i tried to chase two 30k b17s in 262 yesterday. took me 3 or 4 sectors to set up for 1 HO pass (in which i failed to hit them), then i went home because they looked just to be there to keep a few fighters busy to prevent them from doing something more important than chasing empty buffs.

who were they?

and why can't i hit anything?

Taiaha · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2002, 08:02:53 AM »

I don't know about this. I think that more people are leaving buffs alone, but those who are attacking them are a lot better; piloting buffs the last two tours I've noticed a lot more pilots angling for position for slashes, high-side and HO attacks rather than coasting in on my six, and I know when I've attacked bombers I've tried to set up (situation permitting). And I've also been practicing my buff attacks in anticipation of 1.10.

As for whether a 190 could take down a b17 in one pass, Soviet is spot on with his analysis. The A-8 has devastating fire power, as it did historically. Concentrate that fire power and it will saw through a wing or shred a tail in a couple of seconds.

On the other hand, I was in a B26 shot down by a Yak yesterday, and he seemed to expend very little ammo. But that could have been good shooting and lucky hits.

K West · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2002, 08:09:28 AM »

"I was in a B26 shot down by a Yak yesterday, and he seemed to expend very little ammo. But that could have been good shooting and lucky hits."

If it was a Yak-9T with the 37mm then one shot from him could wrinkle your aluminum real good

Westy

DmdNexus · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2002, 08:18:09 AM »

Last night my B17 ran into a cloud and exploded.

Then a few minutes later I flew a flak panzer to 30k and unloaded a full clip into a JU88 at D1 and it didn't explode, it just kept on flying.

Get real! No changes to the game have been made.

You might want to check your Network connect and lag times. That has a lot to do with performance.

Zippatuh · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2002, 09:17:33 AM »

Nothing has changed except the ones attacking you may have finally figured out how to do it. I’d be willing to bet there are more attacks against your wings now rather than the fuselage and at a higher deflection.

LePaul · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2002, 09:40:28 AM »

Muck,

I can honestly say I've seen this from both sides....as buff driver and fighter pilot.

One several occasions, flying a Buff, it does seem like those fellas can slice you up hard n fast in one pass. But, 190s are the ones that seem to do that to me, and with a 20 or 30mm cannon in their armament, I'm not suprised. However several of the P-51s/P47s and such are also attacking *smartly*...honing in on the wingtip of my Lanc...a handful of rounds to the wingtip and you're in a unrecoverable spin. But, thankfully there are still those morons who line up on your six so you can blast them to bits and listen to them whine about overmodeled guns on channel one. Its all tactics.

However...

From the fighter perspective, I can see why there is such animoisity. I've had Lancasters out turn me at 20k, or all out outrun me in a 109G10. Buffs are intriguing creatures. And B-17s still make these incredible 1-shot-high-deflection-kill-anything-German-engine marvels. If 109s/190s are armored, with what? Blessings?

So its an interesting debate. If you are dying in one pass, try those steep turns and banks that fighters just can't keep pace with

Taiaha · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2002, 11:58:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by K West
"I was in a B26 shot down by a Yak yesterday, and he seemed to expend very little ammo. But that could have been good shooting and lucky hits."

If it was a Yak-9T with the 37mm then one shot from him could wrinkle your aluminum real good

Westy

Hehe, you may be right, I keep forgetting there is that Other Yak in the game!

ccvi · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2002, 12:50:50 PM »

Where do you take the time and space from to set up for a correct attack? Except when waiting over the bombers tharget when you get 1 pass, it takes loooong to set up expecially at high alts. Maps are too small and distances between fields too short.

MadBirdCZ · « **Reply #13 on:** June 11, 2002, 01:29:46 PM »

I dont think buffs are made of paper these days... I must second the opinion that lot of the buff kills is scored by experienced 'buff killers' and ppl who really think when atackng a buff.... Yeaterday there was rook atack on 39 at mindanao and I happened to be there in 262. With the help of clouds (which are just great fo this) the atack was decimated by my fellow knights before it caused any damage. Buffs are still vulnerable to 30mm ammo...

But noticed that some buffs (especially Ki-67) are able to take incredible amount of beating before going down... Unloaded about 90 rounds of lazer Hizzookas into one today and it was still flying (D600-450) well he was on fire and exploded later by itself but its a tuff little bastard and its damned fast...

Also Lancasters do act as sponge and soak damage quite well but no I didnt notice any change. Buffs still die easyli when you know how to atack them and fighters are killed by buffs enev easyer when the fighter jock screws up

cajun · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2002, 01:35:47 PM »

I do find bombers somewhat fragile, especially since we have all these late war planes with huge cannons , that can take a bomber down in 1 shot like 109, 190, 110, nik etc... But I allso find that they can be surprisingly tough at times.

Once the 3 bomber formations and gun interuption gear are added I think everything will be pretty well balanced.