Author Topic: Carrier Re-Modeling  (Read 103 times)

Offline SpinDoc1

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Carrier Re-Modeling
« on: June 14, 2002, 03:24:04 PM »
In response to a post on carrier attacks in Help and Training Forum:

I think the current CV models could use a look-over. Being that HiTech prides itself on historical and real life accuracy of modeling, would it be possible to take these suggestions into consideration?

The carriers we currently have are an all or nothing deal. Whether it has 7 of the 8k required to sink it pumped into the hull does not affect the ack defense or manuevering of the ship. With the current modeling, would it be feasible to allow players to strafe the ships or have bomb damage kill the guns in certain parts? On fields we can affect defense by killing certain ack guns and with bombers you can eliminate their gun positions... So why should the CV retain all movement and defense capability when it's just about dead? I think most people would agree that this is something frustrating when trying to attack a fleet.

Just my piece.

Jason
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Offline cajun

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Carrier Re-Modeling
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2002, 03:36:32 PM »
I agree!, Also I wish there was a way to make torpedoing more usefull in AH, maybe I'm just not doing it right, but 95% of the time I don't even make it close enough to drop my torp, and even when I do they move so slow that its near impossible to hit an enemy ship.  Infact I dropped a torp right behind a carrier and the carrier out ran it!

Offline Sabre

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Carrier Re-Modeling
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2002, 03:55:03 PM »
Agreed.  I'm all for a more complex damage model for ships.  Part of the problem is that if you allow damage to slow a ship down, flight ops become impossible.  This is not necessarily terrible, as it's possible to temporarily disable flight ops at airfields.  Any single torpedo hit or bomb hit to the engine spaces would reduce the ship's speed by one-third for 15 minutes.  However, you'd have to allow the ship to repair damage to itself over time in the same manner as airfield objects do. You'd still have to allow for accumulated damage that results in the ship sinking.

Example: A CVBG is steaming along, fresh from port and with no damage.  An enemy strike force approaches, composed of torpedo planes and dive bombers.  The torp planes strike first, getting one hit on the CV and reducing the its speed by 1/3.  The dive bombers roll in and get three hits: one in the elevator, one on the forward 5-inch turret, and one in the island.  The elevator hit disables all a/c spawning for two hours (the default down-time for airfield hangers), but still allows for landings.  The gun hit likewise disables that turret for the same amount of time.  The hit to the island disables radar.  It also prevents a new course from being plotted during that time (TG follows last plotted course).  Let's say the accumulated damage is worth 6,500 lbs.  After 15 minutes, full speed is restored; after 2 hours the other damage is repaired.  However, at two hours and 10 minutes, another strike lands a 2,000 lb bomb, which hits directly over the engine spaces.  Normally, this would cause speed to be reduced back to two-thirds.  Unfortunately, the additional 2k of damage is added to the 6.5k already inflicted, sinking the CV.

Problem: What do you do if other ships in the fleet take engine or hull damage?  The code currently requires all ships in a TG to stay together.  So does the entire fleet slow down because one of the destroyer escorts took the damage?  What if it's the CA that's hit?  These questions would have to be considered.  The short term solution would be to implement selective damage to ships' systems, but to forget about damage affecting speed.  Simply continue to allow full speed regardless of how much damage has been done.  Even this would be worlds better than the current modeling.  Oh, and I want to see fire and smoke when I damage a ship, and a big black hole where that turret that I just capped used to be:D.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2002, 04:02:19 PM by Sabre »
Sabre
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Offline KG45

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Carrier Re-Modeling
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2002, 04:06:11 PM »
i'd settle for some smoke, to make it easier to find damaged ships, and to maybe define how badly it is damaged.

and maybe some decrease of AA volume/accuracy.
all you fascists, you're bound to lose...

Offline SpinDoc1

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Carrier Re-Modeling
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2002, 04:11:47 PM »
Excellent points Sabre, something that will take a lot of thinking and a lot of hard work on AH's part, although with the addition of all these new Pac-war planes, would be a worthwhile endeavor. As for torpedo's Cajun, that comes with practice. I used to go offline and practice with ju88's since I was very frustrated about not killing ships either. One method I've found effective is to approach the carrier directly perpendicular (I prefer left side attack). Slow Ju to about 140-150 and aim for about 2+ ship lengths in front of cv. The optimum time to release is between when ack begins firing and when they actually hit water around you. Then do a flat rudder turn away from task group to minimize your surface area available for ack to hit. Another method is to come in very low directly of front bow of ship. You have to start this run from a few miles out. Try to line up view so that the white ripples in water are a straight line behind ship (you are on impact line with ship in other words). When you see ack begin to fire release and execute a hard 180 to avoid being minced meat. One more method is to load up a bunch of p51's with 25% fuel and 2 1k's. Climb to 10k feet above fleet, slow to near stall and drop flaps, then roll inverted, dive, line up on ship release, and pull out before 350 mph. The flaps are to slow your dive while you line up and then you are able to pull out before becoming another suicide bomber... Good luck!

Jason
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Offline Yippee38

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Carrier Re-Modeling
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2002, 04:36:22 PM »
Why not allow ships to regen like airfields do?  If you're assuming that the elevator, engine, con tower can be repaired in two hours, why not let those repairs effect the total damage of the ship.

Put supply into play.  Instead of having a city with a train or convoy, spawn a supply ship a certain distance from the fleet and automagically move it alongside the carrier to resupply it.  Use the same rules for the supply ship as for the trains and convoys for respawn times, etc.  It would have to spawn in the water, but out of visual range from any NME fleet or base.  It couldn't spawn on the opposite side as that would give away the heading to the enemy fleet, but if the NME fleet is outside of visual range, the supply ship could spawn in any direction.

It really wouldn't effect the sinking of ships too greatly IMHO.  That usually happens in a relatively short time period.  In theory, it should be as easy to sink a carrier as it is to flatten a base.  However, if the person controlling the fleet wants to save the carrier, they can try to withdraw for repairs, then get back into the fray.