Subs!

[DanielMcIntyre]

Um why should submarines have to surface to fire torpedoes?  The entire purpose of a WW2 submarine was to run on the surface until it made a contact, get into position, submerge, fire torpedoes and escape.  Submarines would only surface during combat due to damage, at night, or to finish off an unarmed or badly damaged surface vessel.

I'm pretty sure a sub could run flank speed on electric power for 30 mins or thereabouts.

Wonder if we'll get U-Boat pens?

[DanielMcIntyre]

Oh yeah, to make submarines really effective / worthwhile ack on cv has to be more lethal or the cv toughened up.  Otherwise the single suicide P51 will render them unneccesary.

[Ghosth]

Subs in pacific routinely did "end arounds" on on the surface in daylight. In order to get into position for attacks enemy shipping.

As for subs attacking Carrier groups, well it's going to be tough. But if you happen to be in the right place at the right time.  

[MAC]

My thought on making subs surface or near-surface to fire was to make them vulnerable enough to kill from time to time.  Unless we are able to get sonar, etc., subs will get kill after kill after kill without being found.  I know the near-surface requirement is not historically accurate....but then again, so are a great deal of things in this Sim.  My suggestion was just as a balance of power, unless we get subs AND sonar/recon, or some way to locate them.  

[DanielMcIntyre]

Well subs would have come up to 60 feet or less for a sumberged attack.  Periscopes left a visible wake in the water.  Periscopes were also detectable by surface vessel radar as well as airborne radar.  At 60 feet or less, a submarine silhoutte can be spotted by aircraft.  As well as this a submarine on the surface takes a fair while to submerge leaving a decent amount of time for gunfire and / depthcharge / bombing.

It's highly likely that HTC will include an icon for submarines like they have with the PT.  I'm wondering whether this will apply to periscopes as well.  More then likely will imo.

[LtHans]

Mac, WW2 subs run on the surface all the time.  99% of the time.  They only submerge when they go on the attack during daylight.

I assume what you mean by near-surface is a visible shadow in the water?  AKA when the periscope is down you can still see it?  You could see it in real life, depending on the water clarity.  This picture is a best case scenario using Caribean Sea, which is ultra clear water.  I don't know the average visibility in water, but I assume you can see subs at periscope depth fairly easy.

 

And I would think we would get sonar too.

Hans.

[Westy MOL]

BTW, which one of the FDB's is that Hans?

 Westy


 

[zarkov]

Are ocean "supply convoys" going to be incorporated into AH along with the subs?  Historically, WWII subs were used primarily against merchant shipping.  Except for some surprise muggings, they were really no match for surface warships, especially in terms of speed (they were extremely slow when submerged - practically sessile).

As for surface attacks, I believe most U-boat attacks were carried out at night whilst surfaced.

For subs to operate efficiently, they would have to have in conjunction with airborne reconnaisance.  Otherwise, you're just left puttering around a patrol zone, hoping for trade.

[WarChild]

man.. PT boats cant run down a fleet.. how are subs supposed to do it?

[zarkov]

Originally posted by WarChild:
man.. PT boats cant run down a fleet.. how are subs supposed to do it?

Well, historically, subs were used primarily against merchant shipping convoys, not warship fleets.  And merchant convoys generally tended to go as fast as the slowest ship...

Should be interesting to see how the subs are incorporated into the game.

[Arlo]

Subs never were intended to "run down" fleets. They patrol known convoy routes and position themselves to intercept key fleet and convoy elements based on reports passed on.

 I suppose tracking fleets from the air would be useful, unfortunately the same planes tracking could also do the sinking.

 Whatever happens, it looks as if there's going to be some anticipation and planning involved. (Imagine that)  

[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Arlo ]

[zarkov]

Originally posted by Arlo:
I suppose tracking fleets from the air would be useful, unfortunately the same planes tracking could also do the sinking.
[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Arlo ]

Well, if bombing accuracy is going to be reduced, the planes might have a hard time sinking the ships.  Unless they go in low, in which case they will have to contend with the flak from the ships.  Plus, subs have a much longer "loiter time" than planes.  The plane will eventually have to RTB.  The sub can stalk the convoy and attack until it is out of torpedoes.  If they can work out the cooperation between subs and air-craft, it would be very neat.

[Gypsy Baron]

Originally posted by Ghosth:
Would love to see the flying boats get modeled here. Air Sea Rescue, anti sub patrol, anti shipping, whatever.

I predict interesting times ahead for HTC.
Rock on guys!

 Then let's make the bailers/ditchers that survive
an at sea dunking wait until a PBY or sub comes to their rescue  

[Westy MOL]

Hoep it's a quick rescue. The AH oceans just aint safe GB.

 

<nods yup>

carnivorous bastidges

   Westy

[popeye]

Westy,  yer scaring me.