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X-Source: The Tankers' Forum
Subject: Re: Dan Welch and German vets
From: Dan Welch
Date: 1/2/99 10:31:49 AM
Come to think of it, has anyone ever read a German memoir where the author admitted to hating or mistreating a Jew or a Slav or anyone else? I think there are Vietnam memoirs written by men who feel remorse over accidentally shooting civilians. Has anyone seen that among the Germans?
Mike
The most interesting experience I ever had was with a family that lived in Baumholder. I and a friend went to their home for the Christmas exchange program when I was a PFC. There was grandpa and grandma, the son of grandpa and grandma, his wife, and their two children. Grandpa had rebuilt his small pre-war bakery into a chain spread over Rhineland-Pfalz, and was pretty much rich. His son now ran the show, and the grandson was a commo guy in a Bundeswehr arty unit. The grandaughter (a babe) was going to culinary school, and was destined to take over the business. This was in '82.
After the preliminary wine and small talk, including concern over the recent deployment of Soviet SS-20's. After dinner, I carefully broached the question of grandpa's possible participation in the war. I speak fairly decent German, and the grandson spoke fairly decent English, so as we got drunker, communication became
so smooth there was no barrier at all. As we all got more bombed on champaigne, they all opened up more and more. It ended up
Grandpa had been a member of the SA, had ended up in jail after the night of the long knives, got out, tried to join the SS, was denied because of his prior SA time, and ended up joining the Heer. He served in Poland, missed France, but was on the coast prepping for Sealion til it was cancelled. Went into Russia, spent like 3 years there, was wounded, recovered, got sent to the
west, and was captured. Got tired of sitting around in a POW cage, and managed to get out and walked back home. Found the bakery rubbled and the family gone. Tracked them down, and then started the process of rebuilding.
His son was the youngest drummer in his chapter of the HJ, and missed conscription due to his extreme youth. Grandma was extremely proud of he husband and son's service the the NSDAP, as were the grandkids, and the mother was the only one there who (and this was painfully obvious) seemed at all shocked or disappointed in the conversations taking place.
Since my friend and I were both avid historians, we knew about everything they talked about, and asked very informed questions, which had the effect of thoroughly pleasing them and flattering them, bringing out yet more open-ness.
This is the jist: There was no better time in German history, Hitler was a great man, the greatest German (Austrian never came up) who may have been misguided somewhat in views, but all people have these minor problems. Jews were not to be talked about, as when Jews were brought up, Grandpa in particular seethed with distaste. And in racial issues, Grandpa confided that the US Army was the greatest war machine in history, and that we should have banded together against the Reds. The only problem with the American Army was that if you had a company of 100 men, and put one black in it, it destroyed the worth of that company.
Grandpa's MOS was a bridge pioneer, and his main job was reinforcing existing bridges, whether light or damaged, to take the weight of heavy traffic and tanks. He had several stories of the eastern front, and told of things like kicking in a peasant hut door and making the woman their convert the sleeves of her shirt into a pair of gloves by cutting and sewing fingers into them so he could keep his hands warm. This was a common activity, kicking in doors and exploiting peasants for needs, since that was basically all they were there for. He never said anything
about blatant atrocities, but the general treatment of Russians was atrocious, which just throws fuel on the bigger fire.
The fear of Russia as the main threat to Europe was a standard concern, and it was obvious that this was a main point from his SA days all the way through to the (at the time) present. I would say that in order of dislike (hate might be too strong a word, but I wouldn't discredit it) Jews were probably first (but these had been largely dealt with as a threat) followed by the USSR, and then probably the third country nationals, that are just about universally disliked in Germany.
I'd like to state at this point that I used to visit these people back when I was 20 years old, during what I'd like to call the adolescant period of my adulthood. Back when I thought that the ultimate fighting machine in the world had been the Waffen SS, and was very into the German side of the history of WW II. I used to hit the flea markets and antique shops in Germany then, looking for war memoriabilia and militaria. My outlook has
significantly changed since then.
I used to visit Grandpa and Grandma on a fairly regular basis after that at their home. They were always glad to see me, and we always had a plate of pastry and plenty of wine. That was
a standard thing. We'd talk about the war mostly, but other things as well. I'd often bring books for him to comment on, and I tried using my German dictionary, but after the first visit, stopped bringing it, as every time I went to look up a work, Grandpa would push the dictionary aside. He insisted I'd learn better by just trying to understand without the book.
Although I have many fond memories of my times talking to German veterans, I must admit that I am embarrassed by the way I used to admire them. I have since changed my outlook on life drastically.
I do believe that some people are inherently evil, and that evil is a
real force in the world. I am not saying that German veterans are evil, but I do believe that in general, none of them look at the cause they were fighting for as evil. I believe it was. My wife is a Filipina, and my children are bi-racial. Although I would have liked to introduce Grandpa and Grandma to my wife, as they would no doubt have been delighted to meet my future family (they really did treat me like family), I don't think they would have approved of my inter-racial mixing. I also would not ever again go to visit, even if alone, just because of the belief system they had.
Also, because of my experience in the Gulf War, I have a serious grudge against anyone who instigates a war for anything less than a noble cause.
I'd like to make a note about talking to Germans in general, from my experience. If you don't speak German, you can expect the usual politically correct canned answers to questions about the war. They will look at you as a foreigner. But if you speak German, they will talk to you completely differently. Someone who speaks German and is white can expect to be treated almost like they were a German themselves, provided they are friendly and courteous, which Germans expect as basic protocol.
An underlying theme I found to be present during many conversations was the regret not of what happened during the war, but the main regret that the war was lost. If it had been won, there would be no need for regret. As far as the holocaust, suffering, destruction, etc., these things are a normal part of war, and although unfortunate, they should be overlooked
as part of the means to the end. Of course, I would not be so bombastic to feel that there aren't German people out there who are truly disgusted with the way things went, and who are good, wholsome people. But I know too well that there is an undercurrent there that is alive and well. I know Germans personally that believe that Kristelnacht is not that far
away from a repeat, and know one German woman who has moved to the US because she honestly feels it is not that far away, and she doesn't want to be there anymore. But this time, since there aren't any jews left to speak of, the violence will be directed against the third country nationals.
Anyone who's familiar with the Bundeswehr is well aware of the problems they are experiencing with neo-nazism in the ranks and the similar and larger problems of neo-nationalism. Simple things like re-adopting the jack boot have not helped at all, and many believe that measures like these were intentional. You would be surprised at how many Germans you can talk to in the US that believe, given the opportunity, Germany would try it again.
To get a bit more back on topic for the thread, my impression of Hartmann was that he was a young kid quite caught up in the excitement of pre-war nazi germany, combat flying and the opportunity to interact so closely with political figures he admired
at the time. No misgivings were expressed about Nazism (you don't get the impression he was what could be called a "deep young man") and his major problems with Hitler seend to center on operational issues.
I have no idea what his political views were after the war, other than there was no real condemnation about Nazism in his book. Having a plane in his honor, as we do with the G-10 (I believe the tulip nose scheme was rather rare I as I understand) is appropriate given his achievements as a combat pilot. He is not a hero to me, however.
Charon
