Parity??? My arse, I don't think so

[Dennis]

I think squads are great.  Have actually considered joining one. But I also think "squad nights" in an underpopulated arena like the CT are a bad thing.  

The CT is my favorite arena, and until last night, I have always witnessed at least a token effort to balance sides.  But I suppose with the stretch between Pacific setups and the emergence of two -- maybe three -- full-time carrier-based squads, it was just a matter of time  before something like last night's prison rape happened.  I do think it could be avoided.

I'm not suggesting anyone break up squads.  They join to fly together.  But I am suggesting that if multiple squads -- especially large ones -- insist on descending upon the CT on the same night and time, one or more of those squads should be willing to fly for the disadvantaged side.  There's nothing revolutionary about this.  It is the same spirit of cooperation that has been evident in the CT from Day 1 with individual fliers.  
Another option might be to coordinate among squads so that they are not all in the arena -- operating as squads -- on the same night.

I don't understand the use of the CT for training missions.  I do understand the "joint ops" concept -- but what's the point if there are not reasonable numbers on the opposing side?  Is it not essentially the same as practicing/milkrunning in the TA? You can fly your chosen bird(s) in there without waiting for a PTO setup.  There are carriers to practice takeoffs & landings.  There are nmy carriers and bases to attack.  There are gangbang opportunities (usually someone is foolish enough to take you on).

Yeah, it would be lovely ... at least from the all-allied-all-the-time squads' standpoint ... if some axis squads would organize and populate the CT.  No argument there. And if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its bellybutton on the ground when it hopped.
The thing is, wouldn't a IJN-based squad have the same frustration in the CT as you USN fellows?  Waiting for PTO setups would really be a squeak, and they'd be moaning about being forced to fly LW planes the rest of the time.

I'm a firm believer in not dictating what planes people can fly.  But when squads alter the balance in the CT, they are dictating to me.  In our current setup, I've gotta 'turn japanese' or be part of the problem.

Splash1

[Löwe]

Actually splash we havent moaned about non PTO set-ups, we have asked for more PTO set ups but havent moaned.
Squads in the CT is a good thing it brings more people, what we need is more Axis squads in there even if I have to start one.

[ergRTC]

whow splash hold the phone.

What the hell are you talking about?

Most of our members fly CT only.  I am one of them.  I am a 'mia' rtc member in the MA but I have not flown there in months.    YOU really need to pay attention.  Our squad members are required to send in what exactly happened on each of there sorties.  How many kills did we have? 1.  

Yep 17 odd squad members, 1 kill.  I dont think the 880 had any either.  Whatever you are talking about is a figment of your own imagination.

I would not call 1 kill a 'rape' in any sense of the word.  You have a problem that has nothing to do with numbers in the arena.  If you were having problems flying and enjoying yourself while playing in the CT, that was your own fault.  


A kwik bit o advice.  Wanna live? get a squad.  Makes the game way way more enjoyable.  You can always fly alone, but you need a squad if you ever want to experience what real aircombat was like.  

If you ever want to give it a shot, show up on a tuesday or thursday and hang with us.  (as long as the xo and co were not too offended by your dillusional comments).

[Dennis]

Apologies Lowe,
I guess I wasn't clear.  I didn't say you were moaning about the lack of PTO setups.  I know you have been lobbying for more frequent PTO setups.  I understand there is a difference -- tho subtle. ;-)
What I was suggesting was that an IJN squad formed for the CT would have the same frustrations as your squad waiting for setups featuring their chosen theater, and end up moaning about having to fly LW planes in the interim.  

Originally posted by Dennis
The thing is, wouldn't a IJN-based squad have the same frustration in the CT as you USN fellows?  Waiting for PTO setups would really be a squeak, and they'd be moaning about being forced to fly LW planes the rest of the time.

Perhaps "moan" is too loaded a word, but you did say you hated flying Soviet and RAF planes and were bored with USAAF.

More numbers in the CT is a good thing only if they're not all on the same side.  But that's just my opinion.  Everyone's got one.

Splash1

[Chanter]

"Perhaps "moan" is too loaded a word, but you did say you hated flying Soviet and RAF planes and were bored with USAAF."

..but it hasn't stopped VF-27 (or us) from flying them in the interest of keeping the CT populated.

As to the training portion - what's the problem?  We (880) picked an obscure Carrier Group in the middle of the ocean for a sortie to deliberately not interfere with the furballs occuring between whatever two bases were involved.  We didn't offset the balance so unfortunately I'll have to disagree with you there.   I'll bet had someone been in the area where our newest member was floundering about, they'd have happily ripped him a new one time and time again without batting an eyelash, delighted in their great fortune to have flown a (insert # of kills here) sortie.

For the first time since I've been in the CT (not long - 4 months tops) I squelched channel 1.  That is my usual start up sequence for the main, .squelch 1 .squelch 6.  I never squelched it in the CT prior because it was used to convey congratulations and salutes for well fought battles.  I guess I jinxed myself however, because right after I posted here about what a mature arena the CT was, there was an exchange between two "mature pilots" (oddly, neither one has been in there since) that would have made a sailor blush.  I'm not offended by the language and all the "cute" ways folks spell things to avoid being muted, but I'll bet you there were some that would have been.

Let's all just quit the pissing and moaning and go back to flying historically matched fighters against each other in a gentlemanly manner; it's more fun that way.

[Dennis]

Originally posted by ergRTC
whow splash hold the phone.

What the hell are you talking about?

.....some ranting snipped here for brevity's sake ....

A kwik bit o advice.  Wanna live? get a squad.  Makes the game way way more enjoyable.  You can always fly alone, but you need a squad if you ever want to experience what real aircombat was like.  

If you ever want to give it a shot, show up on a tuesday or thursday and hang with us.  (as long as the xo and co were not too offended by your dillusional comments).

Yeah erg, you're a walking billboard for recruitment.

As I said in my post, I've been thinking about a squad.  Until just very, very recently, I was even eyeing VF-27 -- is that the one you're with? I've enjoyed getting the feel of the game (new to flightsims) for awhile now, but agree I might live longer with wingies to watch my tail.  

Not that living longer is a prerequisite for my enjoyment of the game.  I generally have a good time and get shot down plenty -- especially against the calibre of pilots in the CT.

In any case, I don't think I'm going to "experience what real aircombat was like" by playing a PC game ... squad or not.

Anyway, on your "1 kill" rant ... you guys brought your squad into this issue.  Drunky left names out, because it was the issue of imbalance he was addressing -- trying not to make it personal.  I don't think VF-27, by itself, was the problem.  Personally, I was shot down probably three times trying to defend a base with maybe 3:1 odds.  They were flying P38s.  Don't remember the squad name, but there sure seemed to be a whole lot of'em.  

You can call it a figment of my imagination if you like.  Apparently at least a few others (those flying Japanese last night) share similar figments.  That's ok.  Think what you want.  I don't think anyone in this thread pointed an accusatory finger directly at your squad.  The issue, I thought, was the concentration of power caused by too many squads upping for the same country,  at the same time, thus diminishing the choices -- and chances -- in the game for others.

As for me, after a short while of flying at a disadvantage, I got two kills and an assist manning a destroyer gun against a swarm of VF-27 Hellcats kamikazi'ing a fleet before I logged.  So the night wasn't a total loss.

No offense, but I think you should just cool off and let your xo and co do the talking for the squad.

Splash1

[ergRTC]

I am plenty cool.  You are just getting all the stuff I had to hold down from spouting on channel 1 .  CO and XO wouldnt take the leash off.

No offense to you personally.  We noticed someone was manning a gun near the end there.  We had a great little cv hunt mission planned, but by the time we all got in the air the cvs were on each other!

Also, we were not suiciding.  Or at least trying not to.  In our squad scoring system we now count a2g attack deaths (like anyone outside the squad cares) but that means that we do not intentionally do 'suicides' on carriers or any other target.  We try to attack and sometimes screw up.

As far as ignoring the rant, that is the problem. You refuse to admit that you couldnt handle a 10 axis to 7-10 allied ratio.   Which is what was out there.  For a lonewolf, ratio should never be a problem.  It is alway you vs the enemy.  

I am not 'angry' at anybody, just wish you would accept responsibility for some pretty silly behavior (but come to think of it, i dont remember you broadcasting much on the main channel  I have it filmed will go back, maybe make a collage...).  I would be thrown out of the squad for whining like that on channel 1.


p.s. the carrier attack was much earlier in the evening, around 10:20 pm,  the arena crashed near 11:00 when we were attacking a bish field like idiots.

I will  shutup now, before I get thrown out for posting this stuff.................

[oboe]

Sounds like I missed one heck of a night in the CT!

[Wilbus]

I for one much prefer being a bit outnumbered then outnumbering (ok not as the bish outnumber in the MA where ya never get a fight unless they have 5-1+ advantage) but a fun fight, 2 vs 1 numbers

[Reschke]

Well I dropped in late to that party right before the reset happened. When I saw ~40 players in the CT I thought to myself..."HELL YEAH!" But then I saw it was too damn many to not enough. Although I did notice the big red bars way off from where the fighting was happening around 1,2,3 area.

I made some tongue in cheek references to the unequal numbers once I saw all the squadron members for those three squadrons. Unfortunately I could only find one other LJK member and he logged after two flights in the MA about 20 minutes after I went in looking for people to bring to the CT.

[Squire]

Why is it everybody thinks as soon as there is a side imbalance that its a "2 field fight 10 miles from each other" gang bang?

I was there. It wasnt. Trouble is the culture of the MA where thats all it ever is, folks all jump to conclusions. Like Chanter said, 880 FAA deliberatley rolled 2 heavy strikes vs ground targets (ya the bombs really are for something) and avoided sweep missions entirely.

There is more to arena action than just ratios.

Cripes, the sky isnt falling. Relax.

[Dennis]

I'll poke in with a couple of final thoughts on the subject then butt out.

Obviously a number of people are comfortable with 'squad nite' imbalances in the CT.   That's cool.
I just don't think it's universally agreed that such a numbers imbalance is going to attract more people to the arena.  I suspect -- could be wrong -- that Reschke's initial reaction is a common one.  I also suspect he had a pretty tough sell getting folks in the MA to follow him to the CT under those conditions.

The long and short of it is that it's been suggested that the squads consider coordinating with one another rather than all flying at the same time for the same country, and the ones in question are not interested in doing that.  It was a suggestion.  It was booted.  End of story.  We all get along from here.  

Finally, much has been made of the ingracious chatter on channel 1 Tuesday night.  Fair enough.  I saw it, too, and some of the taunting I read was excessive -- but no more so than the name-calling in this thread on this bulletin board.   Such attacks and insults are inappropriate in either case, and only serve to goad a response in kind.

See y'all on my six in the CT.
Splash1

[ergRTC]

You are right splash, I have been a bad monkey.  We are currently working on a fix for this problem (squads from the same side having squad night together, not me being a bad monkey).

  I think your suggestion is a good one, but the problem lies in the lack of any axis ct squad existing outside of the lw plane set.  We are heavily discussing this within the vf27.    

We will keep the ct posted.

[Makofan]

I'm used to fighting against the odds from my time with the 27 Sentai in WB 2.xx Historical Arena.  So I decided that we (308 RAF) would fly Axis this setup.  It still was no fun.  Don't know if it is the plane mix, but I felt helpless.  Called squad night off early and logged.  Didn't fly rest of the week.

I have no solutions - unless it is give the Ki-84 to the IJAAF!

[ergRTC]

You felt helpless with the zero?  Man, whenever I get behind a japanese plane and come across f6fs or f4us I feel like I have the sweet position.  Since we fly against the japanese planes all the time I have come to really respect them, and enjoy flying them when we practice.   I have had very good luck in the ki and the zero against american iron.  I dont fly the nik for obvious reasons, but that plane kicks some serious butt I hear.