Author Topic: true FW190 rollrate (Read 4108 times)

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #90 on:** June 25, 2002, 07:12:24 AM »

straffo, wellllllcommmmmme to the whinnnnnnnnner sssssssssside of AH ....

straffo · « **Reply #91 on:** June 25, 2002, 07:28:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
straffo, wellllllcommmmmme to the whinnnnnnnnner sssssssssside of AH ....

But at least you've some data I've : "nib, nada, que tchi ,rien,que dalle"(*) nothing ...

Btw if you search in the past I've whined for the Yak 9Ut and it's soon to be time for another thread punt

And I still pray each evening for a MB5

(*) isn't french a marvellous language

Vermillion · « **Reply #92 on:** June 25, 2002, 07:41:52 AM »

Ok I'm gonna talk about this from the gameplay perspective. And Mandoble, you can check my stats and find that I spend the majority of my time in 190's so I think that at least gives me the right to comment

For those of you that have not been around AH from the early days, yes the rollrate of the 190 was reduced.

Why? No the plane wasn't too good. It was changed because many of the 190 pilots were using it to intentionally warp roll every time they were in danger. And it got to be a serious gameplay problem.

And please don't tell me "well.... I didn't do it" because at least one of the people in this thread was one of the best warp rollers (or worst depending on your perspective) I've ever seen, and had it down to a fine art form. If you talked to them about it, they just thought it was "good defensive manuevers".

Medium to High ping times + high roll rates = warpy warpy warpy

So if you abuse it, you lose it.

Now my question is, why do you need more roll rate than is currently in the 190's? Unless you want to use warp rolls as defensives? The 190 series is still the best rolling plane in the game by far, and can use its rollrate defensively quite effectively.

You don't need to more. The plane fits its historic role, and does so within the limitations of the internet environment, without harming the gameplay of others.

You wanted an honest answer, well you got it. Of course HTC can't make such a statement, but I think most of us here know this is the straight forward truth. So if you feel insulted or threatened by my statement then flame away, but I think you'll just make yourself look bad.

RRAM · « **Reply #93 on:** June 25, 2002, 08:00:13 AM »

I understand the need to reduce the rollrate of the 190 at low to medium speeds. If it caused warping, a slight decrease of the rollrate to avoid it is something I don't really mind.

However...at high speeds there is no warp problem, and the 190's rollrate at high speeds seems to be too low in AH ...and not because playability reasons.

That is what I talk about in this thread. The low-to-med speed 190's rollrate is something I can live with

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #94 on:** June 25, 2002, 08:03:47 AM »

Verm, I agree totally with you, an excess of roll rate may be a serious problem for game play, as spit-warp-breaks actually are (it is in front of you and now it is at your three o'clock, but that "seems" not to be a problem

...).

Roll rate is nothing by itself, it is the roll rate compared with other planes roll rates what counts. If you decide to turn down the 190 roll rate to solve the warp problems, then you need to reduce proportionally the roll rate of every other plane, so, the relative advantages/disadvantages keep the same.

Actually, AH 190A can barely use its roll rate advantage to outscissor a spitIX, the spit will roll the same aided by rudder but not loosing almost any E in the process. And D9 roll rate is whatever but superb at any speed.

What we ask for is just to keep the "relative" performance of the planes as real as possible.

Hortlund · « **Reply #95 on:** June 25, 2002, 08:37:53 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vermillion
Now my question is, why do you need more roll rate than is currently in the 190's? Unless you want to use warp rolls as defensives? The 190 series is still the best rolling plane in the game by far, and can use its rollrate defensively quite effectively.

Excuse me but I find this question weird. I "need" the roll rate the 190s had in real life, nothing more, nothing less. I play AH because I want a wwii-era flight sim. Not a well-balanced game. If I wanted balance, I would play chess. And since all aircraft are open to all countries, giving the 190 its right characteristics would not affect balance the way I see it.

You know, I have never bithched or whined about the La7s and the manuvers they are able to pull off. I have never complained about the N1k2 and the moves it can make. Not once have I complained about any aircraft. Because I have always though that the aircraft are modelled correctly. That they were that good or bad in real life. And now I get to hear that the 190 is intentionally modelled wrong, for gameplay reasons?

If there is a problem with people "gaming" the game, by intentionally trying to warp their aircraft, there should be some other way to deal with them. Would it be possible to set a number of control input parameters, if anyone tries to violate these parameters, first they get a warning, and after that, if they continue, their controls freeze for 3-5 seconds.

I sincerely hope that what you have posted here is wrong. If this is HTs policy on these things...I mean I just dont understand it. Why would HT want to keep some aircraft performing worse in the game than they did in real life. If you start down that road, what is the next step...?

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #96 on:** June 25, 2002, 08:38:53 AM »

Oh, I see, I gotta play the game to comment on this stuff. Silly me!

Too bad the 190 is the same since Beta Tour 3... and if you go back further than this year, you'll find the majority of my time IS in the 190.

So below me Mandoble.
-SW

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #97 on:** June 25, 2002, 08:47:41 AM »

Hortlund, in the first stages of AH, 190 was a real problem. It was not a question of gaming the game or not, it was only a question of pure raw performance in roll, 190 rolled too fast for an internet game. It was a fact, and Verm is right. It seems you are not going to fly anything close to the real thing, but at least you should be able to fly something that keep the same advantages of the real thing in comparison with other planes.

If you tune down the roll rate of a plane for gameplay purposes, you need to compensate that tuning down, as minimum, the roll rate of the rest of the planes too.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #98 on:** June 25, 2002, 08:48:50 AM »

Tour 23:
AKSWulfe has 38 kills and has been killed 1 time in the Fw 190A-8.
Tour 21:
AKSWulfe has 20 kills and has been killed 6 times in the Fw 190A-5.
Tour 20:
AKSWulfe has 42 kills and has been killed 7 times in the Fw 190A-8.
Tour 19:
AKSWulfe has 45 kills and has been killed 6 times in the Fw 190A-5.

and so on....

Just because I can't afford 40+ hours a month to fly doesn't mean I can't fly your precious LW planes.

Hell, took up a 190A8 last night and fought with it at ~12-3K.... 7 kills before I died against those fearsome Spits you have so much trouble against, La7s, and N1K2s.
-SW

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #99 on:** June 25, 2002, 08:53:24 AM »

Wulfe, your stats as your comments are out of scope. Do you agree or dont about the matter of 190 roll rate?

And yeah, you are surelly right, I have enormous problems against spits and Las ...

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #100 on:** June 25, 2002, 08:57:34 AM »

Didn't you see that I agreed with it? Or do you only look for the posts in which I am replying to someone else who thinks the mighty LuftWaffe is so good that their planes have to be neutered... in every freaking game?
-SW

Hortlund · « **Reply #101 on:** June 25, 2002, 09:01:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Tour 23:
AKSWulfe has 38 kills and has been killed 1 time in the Fw 190A-8.
Tour 21:
AKSWulfe has 20 kills and has been killed 6 times in the Fw 190A-5.
Tour 20:
AKSWulfe has 42 kills and has been killed 7 times in the Fw 190A-8.
Tour 19:
AKSWulfe has 45 kills and has been killed 6 times in the Fw 190A-5.

and so on....

Just because I can't afford 40+ hours a month to fly doesn't mean I can't fly your precious LW planes.

Hell, took up a 190A8 last night and fought with it at ~12-3K.... 7 kills before I died against those fearsome Spits you have so much trouble against, La7s, and N1K2s.
-SW

Excuse me but this is relevant how? Aside from you getting an opportunity to demonstrate your (what you apparently feel are good) stats..exactly what is the relevance here? Your word on 190 roll rates relate to your k/d ratio in 190s ...how?

My stats in the Zeke are 1 kills and 0 deaths...by your logic would that make me an authority on the zekes turn radius?

Hortlund · « **Reply #102 on:** June 25, 2002, 09:02:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKSWulfe
...who thinks the mighty LuftWaffe is so good that their planes have to be neutered... in every freaking game?
-SW

Uh, I thought everyone had agreed that the 190 roll rate indeed is neutered in this game.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #103 on:** June 25, 2002, 09:02:52 AM »

Hortlund, read what Mandoble said to me before that reply. Then you may understand.
-SW

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #104 on:** June 25, 2002, 09:03:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hortlund

Uh, I thought everyone had agreed that the 190 roll rate indeed is neutered in this game.

And again, you don't read the thread but just tidbits.
-SW