Author Topic: F6F built to kill jap zeros???  (Read 598 times)

Offline Otto

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1566
      • http://www.cris.com/~ziggy2/
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2002, 10:27:16 AM »
'sniff...'   'sniff...'    "Nice looking Cheeze Ball...   Naaaa, not today.....  I'm not that stupid"

Offline laz

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 302
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2002, 10:59:25 AM »
lol.. how dare you insult me like that. I am not Lazs, Or lazs2, or whatever number he will have next, I am 100X better ;)

Offline BUG_EAF322

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3153
      • http://bug322.startje.com
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2002, 12:48:08 PM »
Laz is a moron
just forgive him
 :)

Offline J_A_B

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3012
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2002, 12:54:14 PM »
The fact is, turning ability is next to useless in WW2 air combat.

I don't mean the kind of flying we do in the MA, I mean in actual air battles, many planes fighting many planes.  While a lot of fun, the kind of flying done by most of us in the MA is not representative of "standard" WW2 air battles.

Why don't you turn in WW2 air combat like we do in the AH MA?    If you slow down to turn with one guy, some other guy will kill you.   Fly in a scenario sometime and you should see this point demonstrated very, very well.  80-90% of scenario deaths typically come from a guy who doesn't see his attacker until it's too late.  It even happens to the "aces".  You think keeping track of 5-6 enemy planes in the MA is tough?  Try keeping track of 20!   And remember, it only got harder in the real deal.  It was much, much safer to just keep your speed up and not "dogfight" at all.

The fact that the F6F could turn reasonably well has NOTHING to do with the Zero.  It can turn well because its designers wanted it to have a low stall speed and really docile stall characteristics (remember this is a plane designed to land on carriers) without sacrificing things like range or payload.  So, they put a really big wing on it (this huge wing is a part of why the F6F is so slow compared to other US fighters, too).  The good turning ability was essentially a by-product.  The F6F was first and foremost designed to be the "perfect" carrier fighter, which by WW2 standards it was.  I think the "designed to beat the zero" part is just a myth, or good PR from Grumman.

In this light the Zero is a total piece of junk compared to the F6F.  The F6F can outrun, outclimb, outdive, and outrange the Zero.  It accelerates quicker in a dive, holds that speed longer in a zoom, has a better weapon set with more ammo, is much tougher, and will easily outmaneuver the Zero at higher (read: combat) speeds.    Add the declining average skill of the Japanese pilots and you have a recipie for slaughter.

J_A_B
« Last Edit: June 21, 2002, 01:29:35 PM by J_A_B »

Offline easymo

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1640
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2002, 01:09:19 PM »
I have a question about these two in the game.  I have never understood how the zeke could have such a limited foward down view. Frome photo,s I have seen, the zeke had a very, short nose.  The f6f has a vastly better view. Did they set up higher or something?.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2002, 01:22:57 PM »
Funny thing is that in the six or so tours after the F6F-5 was added to AH, the A6M5b had a positive K/D ratio against it.

Too many people just like to turn, and that plays right to the A6Ms hands.

Its gotten better since then.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline wipass

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 470
      • http://www.secestimating.com
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2002, 05:45:39 PM »
jab, wolfie,  tmastadon , good posts and points, lazer sorry :)

laz, you plonker (said nicely) , experience here is the key, turn once with a ZEKE,  then gain the advantage again, don't turn fight a zeke, it equals a death.

wipass

Offline brendo

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 269
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2002, 06:15:37 PM »
Hey guys, do you know that in Australia, we actually have Saburio Sakai (spelling) real life combat A6M2!

I saw it the other day..... a nice bird.

Offline Steven

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 681
      • http://members.cox.net/barking.pig/puke.htm
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2002, 06:40:50 PM »
<> -Karnak

Interesting stat, but as I thought of it the stat can be misleading making people think the Hellcats are losing to Zekes in 1v1 battles.  Like someone else touched upon, the MA is a far cry from the real battles of WW2 where there was no continuous parade of aicraft coming in at you.  I would venture a guess that since the Hellcat isn't the fastest of aircraft out there and the incredibly busy skies we have in the MA, the Hellcat probably gets forced to a lower altitude and e-state at times where a Zeke can dive down on the Kitty.  A Zeke with altitude and speed on a Hellcat is going to be a very tough opponent unless the Hellcat has room to dive away.  Someone else touched upon flying the Hellcat in the CT in a Pacific War planeset and seeing how it fares...way different and much better.

Offline Kieran

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4119
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2002, 07:31:19 PM »
Easymo-

I can't speak for the Zero, as I too believe that is an awfully short nose to block so much view, but... Yes, the F6F was set up to have an exceptional view over the nose. The cockpit is high, and if my memory is correct there was even downthrust in the engine specifically to help the view over the nose on carrier approaches.

Offline Otto

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1566
      • http://www.cris.com/~ziggy2/
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2002, 09:48:29 PM »
In a Hellcat / Zero matchup; an F6F flown correctly will always win.  (Hint: B&Z)

In a Hellcat /Zero matchup: an F6F flown incorrectly will always lose.  (Hint T&B)

Offline ZeroPing

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 216
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2002, 12:02:23 AM »
Ive killed many F6fs  with a zeke 1 on 1 and in furballs

Offline Buzzbait

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1141
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2002, 02:40:54 AM »
S!

On a related topic:

The Ki61 Tony is a terrific match for the F6f.  Fights between these two aircraft are a real contest.

Of course, the Tony is not carrier bourne.

Offline Otto

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1566
      • http://www.cris.com/~ziggy2/
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2002, 07:45:41 AM »
ZeroPing,  

   When you flew the F6F you said it "I can't turn with it at all" then you say "Ive killed many F6fs with a zeke 1 on 1 and in furballs"

   So.....?   were they turning???   duh!

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
F6F built to kill jap zeros???
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2002, 08:33:11 AM »
actually "laz"....  100 times better or not.... now that everyone knows who you are...and who you are not... No one cares what you think.    But you knew that didn't you?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
We are not recruiting.